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Where's all this talk of 40k+ HP coming from?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Where's all this talk of 40k+ HP coming from?

Cary's Avatar


Cary
05.10.2013 , 06:45 AM | #11
I have 33k health on my sniper and thats just using normal 69 and 72 gear with augments. Also today in a flashpoint the powertech tank had 39k
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Hockaday's Avatar


Hockaday
05.10.2013 , 07:02 AM | #12
Most tanks I don't believe will be getting that. Well, sins won't. Jug and PT will have to chime in. iirc a sin will be 36-38k.
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ThomasCool's Avatar


ThomasCool
05.10.2013 , 07:24 AM | #13
so my guardian in pretty much fully optimized (imho) arkanian is at 33k HP stimmed although to be fair i still use the 66 enhancements due to their increased defensive stats. Switching those enhancements (i don't want to loose defensive stats to gain end /cry) around would get me another 1.7k HP. So call it 35K on the outside. my defensive stats are 1069 defense 745 shield and 460 absorb. I also use a defense proc relic (yay guardians).

all this to basically say that i really don't see a guardian at over 40k knowing what he's doing

Also to the poster above, how do you get to 53% damage reduction... In combat i get to 50% pretty much exactly. Are you giving up your set bonus? are you in full UW?

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
05.10.2013 , 08:35 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Padheannis View Post
Im fairly close to fully modded out in 72 armor/mod/enhancements.
There is a *massive* difference between being fully modded out in *good* mods/enhs (i.e. the stuff that drops in FPs and Ops; often the good mod/enh only comes on 1-2 pieces of gear, to boot) and being fully modded out in *bad* mods/enhs (i.e. the stuff you buy with comms).

Comm gear is pretty much *universally* high End and painfully low Endurance for tanks. Token and drop gear are the actual high mitigation options. If you're packing HP in the 40k+ region, it's because you're stacking Endurance via comm gear and/or using Endurance augs. *Both* of those things are bad.

I was running a pug Ops last night and the other randoms I was with thought that the other tank they grabbed, who had 8k more hp than me, was better geared based purely upon his hp. Of course, they completely missed the fact that my DR was 1.5% higher, Defense chance was 3% higher, Shield chance was 5% higher, and Absorb was 5% higher.

High hp for a tank is, like it's always been, just a bad tank's way of demonstrating their epeen. A good tank is only going to have marginally more hp than a DPS because *real* tanking is about mitigation, not hp.
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WillLongstick's Avatar


WillLongstick
05.10.2013 , 09:59 AM | #15
40k health is doable with full mitigation augments, good enhancements, and Underworld ear, implants and relic, and all the endurance datacrons. Here's a 40440 HP theroretical build of my Sin tank that I use to run numbers with. An identically geared PT would have the same, and an identically geared Jugg would have slightly under 40k as they don't have the 3% HP talent.

A lot of HP is lost from that build if you use EWH relics, Veracity ear/implants, or unlettered mods. As much as 5k health less from just those changes. You can also gain another 1k health from Verpine Ear/Implants.
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Omophorus's Avatar


Omophorus
05.10.2013 , 10:47 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
I was running a pug Ops last night and the other randoms I was with thought that the other tank they grabbed, who had 8k more hp than me, was better geared based purely upon his hp. Of course, they completely missed the fact that my DR was 1.5% higher, Defense chance was 3% higher, Shield chance was 5% higher, and Absorb was 5% higher.
Similar anecdote. I ran a HM TFB last night (well, part of one anyway, people got all cranky and tired and wanted to sleep. Suckers.) with a PUG Assassin tank with about 41k HP stimmed.

I run about 33.5k HP stimmed with current gear (mainly due to the fact that my raid group has been short members and hasn't really pounded out a ton of 2.0 content yet, so mostly 30B mods from FPs/comms and a mix of 28 GSI-found Immunity and 30 HM FP enhancements).

Said tank was also significantly overshooting on Defense (even moreso than myself) and very low on Shield/Absorb.

In his defense, his guild has about 4 members and he usually PUGs everything, so he intentionally sets up with a massive buffer to help accommodate bad PUG healers.

My raid group doesn't have bag PUG healers.

Both healers were less than thrilled at how much more damage the HP-built tank took in comparison to myself, and how much more attention he required to avoid dropping like a sack of beans in spite of his massive HP buffer.

As I said in another thread here, I totally understand the point of building for HP if you don't have reliable healers and have a good justification for why you don't have them, but put into a situation where you do have them, the shortcomings of prioritizing HP over mitigation very quickly become apparent.
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Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
05.10.2013 , 11:20 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Omophorus View Post
As I said in another thread here, I totally understand the point of building for HP if you don't have reliable healers and have a good justification for why you don't have them, but put into a situation where you do have them, the shortcomings of prioritizing HP over mitigation very quickly become apparent.
In my pugging experience, even when you're dealing with the potential for bad healers, you don't want to overvalue Endurance to the extent that commendation gear ends up forcing you to do. The best way to deal with pug healers is to use and abuse CDs with abandon, especially as a Shadow: mitigate the big hits *before* your healer is forced to bring you back up. At most, you would want ~2k more hp than I would normally recommend for the given FP: just enough to provide a few seconds of cushion time for bad healers to react to big hits with their big heals but enough mitigation that their heals are still effective.
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Jayshames's Avatar


Jayshames
05.10.2013 , 11:24 AM | #18
The heavy endurance augments alone give you around 4,500 health.

Padheannis's Avatar


Padheannis
05.10.2013 , 11:44 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by ThomasCool View Post
so my guardian in pretty much fully optimized (imho) arkanian is at 33k HP stimmed although to be fair i still use the 66 enhancements due to their increased defensive stats. Switching those enhancements (i don't want to loose defensive stats to gain end /cry) around would get me another 1.7k HP. So call it 35K on the outside. my defensive stats are 1069 defense 745 shield and 460 absorb. I also use a defense proc relic (yay guardians).

all this to basically say that i really don't see a guardian at over 40k knowing what he's doing

Also to the poster above, how do you get to 53% damage reduction... In combat i get to 50% pretty much exactly. Are you giving up your set bonus? are you in full UW?
I have my set bonus, both 2 and 4 piece, and im almost completely in 72 mods/enhancements/armoring (read UnderWorld) i have the arkanian shield proc relic and the arkanian defense proc relic, when those are proccing, im at 52.4 ish% damage reduction. so, for about hafl of every minute im at that damage reduction, and the rest, im just under 51%. (these numbers are not exact, because they work of percent chance of the relic proccing.) I am not hard to heal, i use my cds, in fact, our other tank seems to take a bit more damage than i do.

Also, the sorc healer in our raid has just over 33k hp, and so do both our sniper dps, just to put into perspective

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
05.10.2013 , 11:48 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Padheannis View Post
i have the arkanian shield proc relic and the arkanian defense proc relic, when those are proccing, im at 52.4 ish% damage reduction.
Those relics don't increase your DR at all. The shield relic increases your Absorb and the defense relic increases your Defense. The only things that are going to affect your DR are CDs, talents/buffs (re: Guardian Slash), armor rating, and adrenal.
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