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Huttball Championships - Rebels vs Separatists

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Huttball Championships - Rebels vs Separatists

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
04.22.2013 , 06:13 AM | #31
I'm really getting annoyed with this "matter of seconds" thing.

No one here will be one-shoting anyone, unless it's R2-D2 getting blown to bits. One does not simply one-shot other lightsaber duelists. And if you're going to compare Ventress, Dooku, and Luke to Palpatine and the 3 Jedi, remember who is the Jedi and who is the Sith.

If you want a power comparison, look at how Dooku dueled Yoda to a standstill, and how Yoda did not use any telekinetics against Dooku (by your logic) because he knew it would have no affect.

Saying that people will be one-shoted is far from the truth when it comes to these combatants. No one here is sub-par at dueling, nor are they physically weak. Not only is it offensive to the characters that you would underestimate them so completely, but it's also harmful to the debate to call insta-win because Luke is da bomb.

But if you can I can. Once again, Force Choke people. Force Choke would kill Luke in a heartbeat.
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
04.22.2013 , 06:18 AM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by tunewalker View Post
If the rebels are smart Galen will try to fry greivous early and Luke will engage ventress and Dooku taking out 3 of the seps in a matter of seconds so the whole team can turn on durge. once thats taken care of the middle should be hard to regain back as the seps will be trying to fight there way through all kinds of traps and the rebel team all the way from their end zone to the middle.
Grievous has 4 lightsabers. And seeing as he was trained by Dooku, I have no doubt that he knows how to block lightning with them.

Speaking of blocking lightning, you 2v1 scenario still makes no sense. In order to block lightning with a lightsaber, you must stand still and concentrate all your strength into repelling it. So while Dooku is zapping Luke's lightsaber, Ventress could easily come up from behind and slice him across the back. Either Luke moves to block her attack and gets a face full of lightning, or he gets a back full of saber.

And for the traps, even if the Seps have to make it through traps that are completely on, Durge can do it. He has plenty of armor.
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?

Selenial's Avatar


Selenial
04.22.2013 , 06:41 AM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by Warren-Stride View Post
Grievous has 4 lightsabers. And seeing as he was trained by Dooku, I have no doubt that he knows how to block lightning with them.
Not true, dooku always believed "A wise master never reveals all his secrets."
He never taught savage how to block lightning, and I believe dooku would realise grievious might try to make a power play at one stage or another, so he'd need a way to defeat him quickly....
Besides, I thought channeling lightning into a blade required force sensitivity?
We all live or die as Krayt wills, Stryfe. At his word, I would cut out my own heart. Or yours.
CelÚna Mercenary Cathinka Seeliara Sage

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
04.22.2013 , 06:55 AM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by Selenial View Post
Not true, dooku always believed "A wise master never reveals all his secrets."
He never taught savage how to block lightning, and I believe dooku would realise grievious might try to make a power play at one stage or another, so he'd need a way to defeat him quickly....
Besides, I thought channeling lightning into a blade required force sensitivity?
Well then I suppose the same argument can be made here as for Luke. Instinct. Bolts of lightning coming towards you, what do you do? Block it. With the weapons that can block pretty much every energy weapon.

I'm not sure about the Force Sensitivity stuff. But if that's true, where's the lightning gonna go? Has a non-Force user ever countered lightning with a lightsaber? (Seems unlikely.)
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?

Selenial's Avatar


Selenial
04.22.2013 , 07:57 AM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by Warren-Stride View Post
Well then I suppose the same argument can be made here as for Luke. Instinct. Bolts of lightning coming towards you, what do you do? Block it. With the weapons that can block pretty much every energy weapon.

I'm not sure about the Force Sensitivity stuff. But if that's true, where's the lightning gonna go? Has a non-Force user ever countered lightning with a lightsaber? (Seems unlikely.)
I don't know to be honest, this isn't my area of strength, I meant I'm no aubere (+1 to anyone who remembers that)
I was just under the impression lightning was redirected into the saber by a form of tutaminis.... I could be wrong...
We all live or die as Krayt wills, Stryfe. At his word, I would cut out my own heart. Or yours.
CelÚna Mercenary Cathinka Seeliara Sage

tunewalker's Avatar


tunewalker
04.22.2013 , 10:33 AM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by Warren-Stride View Post
I'm really getting annoyed with this "matter of seconds" thing.

No one here will be one-shoting anyone, unless it's R2-D2 getting blown to bits. One does not simply one-shot other lightsaber duelists. And if you're going to compare Ventress, Dooku, and Luke to Palpatine and the 3 Jedi, remember who is the Jedi and who is the Sith.

If you want a power comparison, look at how Dooku dueled Yoda to a standstill, and how Yoda did not use any telekinetics against Dooku (by your logic) because he knew it would have no affect.

Saying that people will be one-shoted is far from the truth when it comes to these combatants. No one here is sub-par at dueling, nor are they physically weak. Not only is it offensive to the characters that you would underestimate them so completely, but it's also harmful to the debate to call insta-win because Luke is da bomb.

But if you can I can. Once again, Force Choke people. Force Choke would kill Luke in a heartbeat.
Yoda is not Luke you are failing to see the reason behind the argument Luke is Anakin to the power of 10 if ventress and dooku could not stand up against Anakin for very Long they would be finished by Luke faster for the same reason they couldnt stand up against anakin i am not calling Dooku or Ventress weak nor am i saying Luke is Uber powerful all i am saying is they were already beat by some one who is EXACTLY like Luke but with half the power. As far as the 2 sided thing you should note how easily Obi-wan blocked Dooku's Lightning its also dodge able the point is Lightning is their only trick one that will be countered quickly and once they engage in lightsaber combat they ARE done in seconds not because they are some chumps with the saber (the masters that sidious took out werent chumps either but it didnt make a difference). Its because the way they lost was purely overpowered by some one who is EXACTLY like Luke with half the power speed skill and so forth by exactly i mean every tactic anakin would use Luke Mirrored and would use to a better extent.

Again you arent reading everything if you did you would have known like i said yoda didnt send Luke to defeat Vader he sent him to defeat vader and the emporer something yoda couldnt do. Yoda was saying Luke> himself at least the areas that mattered when facing the emporer. And if Yoda was confident Luke could face palp on close to even footing someting only him and windu could do (dooku would Lose quickly to the emporer also dooku didnt lose instantly to yoda because yoda wasnt djem so user different fighting style so the comparison is meaningless).

As for greivous blocking the lightning from galen the difference here is the lack of any kind of precog that comes with force sensitivity along with 4 sabers and not 1, 4 sabers can actually make it more difficult to mount a proper defense against lightning because lightning arcs as you dont want the other sabers to get in the way its possible the lightning will arc around one of the sabers and still zap the user. When defending against lightning a single saber is best and you need some combat precog to react fast enough (something Luke is known for having an abundance of)

AND FINALLY STOP THE FORCE CHOKE LUKE USES FORCE CHOKE HE IS TELEKENTICALLY VADERS EQUAL IN EVERY WAY. seriously EVERYTHING vader can do luke can do BETTER.


P.S again i am not saying Luke can one shot any one that would be a falacy A is not automatically better then B just because of power this is 100% a pure case of being an exact mirror of some one we already saw defeat them with double everything please people realise this. I am not calling people weak but we have to realise luke is EXTREMLY powerful he is 95% of the emporer if not the emporer's equal. By RotJ again Yoda was pretty much calling Luke more powerful then himself at the end of RotJ Luke IS one of the most powerful the jedi ever produced on par with both Windu and Yoda he is not some no one who only knows how to use a sword good. If you truely believe that its do to not paying attention to what the movie was trying to show you. He is a FULLY FLEDGED jedi knight not just a saber fighter his force defenses are just as good as his saber combat.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
04.22.2013 , 11:13 AM | #37
Few points to address:

Force choke: Is by no means an insta-kill I'm afraid. As all trained Force users have a power called Force resistance. Which effectively acts as a shield against aggressive Force powers - hence why you don't see Force users thrashing others around like rag dolls. Now one's ability in this power is gauged in one's strength in the Force, the more powerful a Force user you are, the greater your Force resistance. Dooku was able to break Kenobi's resistance but he did catch him by surprise and Obi is not as powerful a Force user as Luke, so his resistance will be significantly higher. Force chokes can also be 'broken' through say a Force push or repulse.

Stunning: Combatants drop the ball if stunned by say, Force lightning. So if Luke was holding the ball and was hit by lightning he would drop it.

Deflecting lightning: According to Wookieepedia - 'Depending on the level of intensity, Force lightning could ground itself on an ignited lightsaber, with no apparent ill effect on the lightsaber's operation.' So I would assume it requires little/no training and that anyone skilled with a lightsaber would be able to deflect lightning with one, unless caught of guard as Anakin was. However a lightning attack on the magnitude Marek can produce would likely be undeflectable.

Obstacles: These cannot be jumped over, or climbed under. However Grievous is free to climb about the rest of the arena as he likes.

"I'm no Aurbere": I remember that.

tunewalker's Avatar


tunewalker
04.22.2013 , 11:26 AM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Few points to address:

Force choke: Is by no means an insta-kill I'm afraid. As all trained Force users have a power called Force resistance. Which effectively acts as a shield against aggressive Force powers - hence why you don't see Force users thrashing others around like rag dolls. Now one's ability in this power is gauged in one's strength in the Force, the more powerful a Force user you are, the greater your Force resistance. Dooku was able to break Kenobi's resistance but he did catch him by surprise and Obi is not as powerful a Force user as Luke, so his resistance will be significantly higher. Force chokes can also be 'broken' through say a Force push or repulse.

Stunning: Combatants drop the ball if stunned by say, Force lightning. So if Luke was holding the ball and was hit by lightning he would drop it.

Deflecting lightning: According to Wookieepedia - 'Depending on the level of intensity, Force lightning could ground itself on an ignited lightsaber, with no apparent ill effect on the lightsaber's operation.' So I would assume it requires little/no training and that anyone skilled with a lightsaber would be able to deflect lightning with one, unless caught of guard as Anakin was. However a lightning attack on the magnitude Marek can produce would likely be undeflectable.

Obstacles: These cannot be jumped over, or climbed under. However Grievous is free to climb about the rest of the arena as he likes.

"I'm no Aurbere": I remember that.
Honostly this seems to make me certain even more that the rebels have this in the bag I just dont see the seps getting the ball very far (except durge whom like i said i have little knowledge of) beyond that i dont suspect Luke will be hit by Lightning as this has said already blocking it shouldnt be much of an issue and once its blocked niether dooku or ventress are likely to try it again unless they were to try to sneak attack Luke (LOL GOOD LUCK his senses are one of his strongest points). I am not sure galens lightning was truely all that powerful though, it seems like that might just be game mechanics and his lightning was just slightly stronger then dooku's but I am probably misinterpretting something so i am just going to leave that one alone for now just suffice to say i am unsure Galen is on the lvl people think he is.

YoshiRaphElan's Avatar


YoshiRaphElan
04.22.2013 , 01:52 PM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by Warren-Stride View Post
Good point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvnwLLXHabg

However, this can still happen (0:00-0:19). Obviously, if you are not trained to deflect lightning, as I'm almost sure Luke is not, a lightsaber won't do much good against it, for sure if he's taking an aggressive stance and dashing at Dooku to get in a slash.
True, but at the same time, Obi-Wan had never encountered Force lighting ever, either, and he blocked it easily enough. I doubt Luke will charge in impetuously, so he has a very good chance of deflecting it.

Mathemagica's Avatar


Mathemagica
04.22.2013 , 02:23 PM | #40
Yay, the next match!

I will start with a few observations I want to make. After that I will formulate the strategy I would try to use as the leader of the separatists/as the leader of the rebels.

Mobility: Among the "players with names" only one of them isn't highly mobile (Durge). The others can jump/climb/jetpack-fly up on platforms. In particular, they can jump down into the pit and get up to the last area before the goalline without ever encountering any firetraps.

Speed: I will split up the "players with names" into three groups, concerning speed. Durge and R2 are the slow ones (relatively). Then we are left with 6 fast force users, however if i think about the movies and the game TFU, I conclude the following (I haven't seen much of TFU2, but from what I saw I guess it doesn't interfere with my point.): Galen, Ventress and Grievous are the really fast ones, while Dooku, Luke and Rahm Kota are slower in comparison.

Strategy of the separatists: Durge will engage Galen Marek and keep him busy.
2 of the commando droids are sent to track down and eliminate R2 (assuming the droids can communicate efficiently with each other over the whole pit they won't have any trouble finding him).
The other 2 commando droids are sent to disturb the alliance forces as much as they can.
Dooku will engage either Luke or Kota and keep him busy (probably Luke, as I consider him the more dangerous one and yes, I believe these two are matched quite evenly and keep each other busy for a long time).
Meanwhile Ventress and Grievous will use their speed and coordinated passing to score as much as they can. They are agile enough to avoid attacks from the alliance forces and Kota can't keep up with them (plus Ventress and Grievous can shredder the alliance forces if necessary).

Strategy of the rebels: Galen will engage Durge and keep him busy (He is the only one who can do it, because he is fast enough to avoid and repel dangerous attacks etc (like Ventress and Grievous above)).
Luke and Kota will engage the other enemies "with names", while the alliance forces try to score using smart passing to make up for their lack in speed.
R2 will use his jetpack to fly near the goalline hoping for a pass (his ability to hack the firetraps seems useless to me in this match).

Assuming both sides use these strategies I think the separatists will win, because Grievous is exceptionally skilled at running from a fight. He can escape any enemy, go straight for the ball carrier and nail him down (even if it wasn't an alliance force). Ventress is good at escaping as well so she can do similarly. Therefore the rebels attempts to a score can be interrupted easily while the separatists are just too fast.



Suggestion for future match-ups: Could we have a match between two of the class crews in the game? (like Troopers crew vs Bounty Hunters crew) Without the protocoll droid and the missing spots filled up with HK-51 units. Just don't use the Jedi Knights crew, because Scourge is much stronger than any other companion lorewise.