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Huttball Championships - Rebels vs Separatists

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Huttball Championships - Rebels vs Separatists

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
04.26.2013 , 08:52 PM | #111
So basically, we have this:

On Separatists:

Ventress (1:30)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7JsP3tn9s0

Grievous (3:50)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIj7gIDFDe4

Durge (4:00)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6LeL3s4Q80

Dooku (1:40)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmIkpRkgaZk

Commando Droids (0:40)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PUFNiRw5Ls

Vs.

Luke (5:00)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvUtXFg65Cs

Rahm (2:20)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aajb9sgmBvM

Starkiller (4:10)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOLE7SLmRno

R2-D2 (0:25)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eg2C9K4b0hQ

Rebel Commandos (1:45)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbn-Ox1XawI


Obviously this extremely one-sided and not a fair representation, but it's called persuasive argumentation people.
And I realize you won't watch all the clips and whatnot, but hey, if you're wondering why I'm voting Seps for this round, there it is.
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?

ZahirS's Avatar


ZahirS
04.26.2013 , 09:44 PM | #112
How about:

Asaj Ventres (Huttball):
http://youtu.be/gNP35AmAqgw

Grievous vs Jedi (Obiwan lvl):
http://youtu.be/7oGf-a1Dqlc

Durge:
http://youtu.be/D6LeL3s4Q80

Dooku:
http://youtu.be/-vU2DuAzM3s

Commando Droids (4:13)
http://youtu.be/kXP5bP1REms


Now...

Luke:
http://youtu.be/YZ_j3s5xj8I

Galen:
http://youtu.be/mVUzzKtwxeY

Rahm Kota:
Same Video as posted by Warren-side, you can see Rahm Kota destroying a whole station

R2D2:
http://youtu.be/jXTGzKkTTLk

Rebel Commandos:
http://youtu.be/zdukWtJwlPU

Video is just for fun, Clones are superior to droids (Cannon) and Rebels>Empire

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
04.26.2013 , 10:37 PM | #113
Quote: Originally Posted by ZahirS View Post
Video is just for fun, Clones are superior to droids (Cannon) and Rebels>Empire
Most of your Sep videos are actually examples of them being awesome and beating people up.

But addressing the troops, you are wrong. Obvious due to your video choice for Droid Commandos, you simply do not know what they are. They are NOT the B1s you seem to imagine they are. I encourage you to watch my video for Commando droids and realize what, exactly, is actually being debated here.

Also, I have yet to hear of any actual accomplishments these Rebel Commandos have done. Saying Droids<Clones<Rebels is NOT a valid argument, seeing as it's simply not true (or cannon) and makes no sense if you have nothing to justify it. I need a REASON why these Rebel Commandos are so great. Not just that they are. I myself will admit to not even knowing what they truly are, simply because we have no examples of their actions. That is why I assumed you were referring to the Rebels that were protecting the Rebel Princess, which got slaughtered very easily by the Empire you say the Rebels automatically trump.
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?

Mathemagica's Avatar


Mathemagica
04.27.2013 , 04:25 AM | #114
Ok, now I have some questions and remarks about the jumping:

1) So our players cannot even jump up that final wall if there is another player standing there? (think Juggernaut/Guardian which represents many of the players in this match to some extent) If i remember correctly you also disabled knockbacks and pulls, so it would make sense from certain viewpoints, but it's important to know.

2) You said, Grievous can climb (almost) everywhere he wants. So he can also climb up that wall?

3) One cannot fly with the ball, but can R2 fly around in the pit as he likes, as long as he doesn't carry the ball?

I will post again sometimes later today about other things (at least I plan to) but right now it's lunch time at my place.

tunewalker's Avatar


tunewalker
04.27.2013 , 06:09 AM | #115
Quote: Originally Posted by tunewalker View Post
I will cover the rebels in the morning didnt know i would right this much..... a lot on durge I have a feeling a lot of this will be skimed over but i dont blaim you guys for it. lol
Ok as promised I will talk about the ball handlers for the rebel team and the possibilities they have to score. Beggining with every one's favorite.

R2: This Little guy while potentially being the rebels king in defense lets face it if he grabs the ball their better be no one even near him. Poor guy only has a few defenses such as a smoke screen which will help defend him against 6 members of the enemy team for a short time but against the 2 force users they will just be able to know where he is and a droid, durge or greivous could get a lucky shot in the smoke screen and kill the poor little droid. If he has the ball this is just exhasterbated to retarded degree as much of the smoke screen would get covered in blaster fire and grenades. its best if the rebels only have the little R2 grab the ball when he is in the center and no one else is and immidiately passing it to another rebel team member one more appropriate to carry the ball. R2 just isnt scoring Like dooku I see no scoring potential for the little guy.


Rohm: Rohm very much like Dooku is not going to out pace the feild which means if he does have the ball he will have to hold up against the might of the seps. This is obviously something he will just not be able to do, at least not for very long. If he has the ball the only way he is getting through is if there is next to no one around and he uses his telekentics to make a large enough hole in the defense of those that are around to make it to the end zone, but this is highly unlikely as Dooku keeps pace with him and ventress greivous and probably even durge can outpace this older gentlemen. The best thing for him to do with the ball is to drop into the pit and use LoS and his telekentics to hold off his opponents until a team member gets in a better position to help him. (I am probably going to go back to the sep's and see if i cant analyize there abilities to do this as it was not something i entirely considered at the time of the previous post will think on it and get back to it). But beyond this he just is not holding the ball for now as many of his opponents can fight him pretty evenly so that attention is not something he is surviving for long with out giving the ball to some one else. Should be noted Juyo ,as far as i know, doesnt have the same blaster deflection issues makashi has along with his ability to keep melee opponents at bay and no Hard counters to Rohm I do see him lasting longer holding the ball then Dooku, ventress or Greivous but not that much longer instead of 10 second we are talking 15 or 20 seconds with out support and the whole team baring down obviously none of these guys last a second no one holds the ball for longer then a second (not even durge) if they are facing the entire opposing team solo, but in a group I would think that Rohm would be able to use his knowledge of trench warfare and the terrain of the pit and skill with coralling opponenets with telekenetics to hold of te enemy team at bay with support he would be able to hold the seps off for a short time but like many others his downfall is inevitable.


Galen Marek: The only ones on the sep team able to keep pace with Galen are ventress and greivous. If greivous catches galen he dies before sabers are pull from a quick force crush and force lightning something he has no defense against. While ventress catching him allows her to slow him down having the team catch up with galen. He can still defeat her if his team mates can hold off the rest of the team long enough to do so. If R2 is in the middle no one is catching Galen as the fire will disapear for him giving him a clear shot and cutting off the seps giving him a clear shot to the goal. He doesnt need more then a few seconds of R2 in the center and know how often R2 has come in and used a consol to help his team escape going almost completely unnoticed and his smoke screen being able to keep him safe from everyone but dooku (assuming Dooku is in the middle or alive). If galen were to run into the respawned members of the sep team alone he wont last long If dooku he will be able to hold him off long enough to get to the end zone but if the cammando droids or ventress are their with dooku galen i would say has a 50/50 chance of defending himself long enough to get over the end zone. If the respawn is Ventress and the drioids i would say about the same chance as dooku and droids and if it is all 3 of them i believe that is a sure fire way to stop galen if he has no support. If the respawn is just greivous or ventress on the other hand galen should be able to largly avoid them and get around them to get to the end zone before fighting the 2 of them which again i believe he can beat any way. The seps dont have much of a way to stop galen from just getting away. If R2 isnt in the middle then i believe Durge maybe able to catch Galen but between force lightning and lightsaber galen can incapacitate him but if he does both teams will catch up just meaning the rebels can now support galen helping him escape again. I dont see many ways for the seps to stop galen as the only way is if the slower members catch him but if they do that means the rebels are their to back him up, with the rebels their he can hold off or escape again. He is ALMOST assured a point.


Luke: like galen Luke out paces most of the sep field only greivous and ventress catching him. Of ventress catches Luke its arguable that she dies with out slowing him down. If greivous catches up with Luke its possible Luke will have him dead by the time the teams catch up with him but it is clear that the teams will catch up with him. If there is no R2 in the middle Luke should be slowed down by traps enough for Durge to catch up. This would slow down Luke again allowing much of the entire sep team to meet him, but again like Galen if the sep team catches so will the rebel team, Which with the whole team backing Luke up he has an even chance of holding off opponenets or breaking away again while his team handles teh seps. If he were to deal with respawns of dooku alone or Dooku+droids he would be able to hold their attacks off long enough to make it to the end zone and pottentially kill the group again. If its ventress+ droids it is the same situation. If Dooku+ventress he will deffinantely be able to hold them off and get to the endzone. If Dooku+ventress+droids Luke will likely start to be overwhelmed by number and i give him a 50/50 shot of making it to the end zone before dieing. If greivous+droids I would give Luke the same chance as dooku ventress and droids as greivous is the most likely to give Luke the hardest time and when dealing with a skilled duelist and blaster fire it will be difficult if not impossible for Luke to dominate the duel the way he does with ventress and Dooku. And of course if he is facing the entire team respawn (minus durge as i have said before i dont see him dieing just being incapacitated) he goes down just as quick as any who faces whole teams. Of course this is assuming he is alone. If Galen travels with him Greivous and ventress will not slow them down at all and even with the entire sep team respawn (minus durge see above) I would still give Luke a 50/50 shot at making it to the end zone before being killed. If R2 is in the middle Luke can out pace the entire sep team by having flames cut off his opponents and move out of his way litterally nothing stopping him from scoring. So like galen i see little to stop Luke from actually scoring with R2 in the middle its almost assured that he will.

So this is partially why I believe the Rebels win while the seps have plenty of possible ways to score none of them are as assured or likely as the rebels have of scoring. Early i was saying that i would analyze the seps team ability to hold the ball long enough to get one of their members to the end zone like I said rohm could possibly do, but with hard counters to 3 of the members (dooku countered by Luke or Galen+trooper fire, Ventress countered by Luke or Galen+troops, and Greivous countered by Galen and maybe Luke, unsure if Luke's force crush skills are enough to stop greivous long enough to cut him down if so then Luke has even easier time scoring.) and the 1 member that could potentially do so is often times over confident and is not known to be one to hide or use the terain to help himself stay alive mostly just reallying on his equipment and physiology to keep him up so with no help from his team any member of the rebel team or some combination of the rebel team can stun him enough to force a ball drop before the seps can get any where good for a ball pass. The main weakness it seems for the seps is most of their team have hard counters (sure fire ways to take them down quickly) and the one that doesnt has shown himself to be arogant enough that it has allowed his prey to escape him on more then 1 occassion with many ways to easily incapacitate him even if he just wont die so unlike Rohm any of the seps who attempt to hold the ball and let team mates get to a better spot are just not likely to succeed.


Yikes if people didnt fully read my post on seps..... not likely to read this lol oh well.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
04.27.2013 , 06:21 AM | #116
Quote: Originally Posted by Mathemagica View Post
Ok, now I have some questions and remarks about the jumping:

1) So our players cannot even jump up that final wall if there is another player standing there? (think Juggernaut/Guardian which represents many of the players in this match to some extent) If i remember correctly you also disabled knockbacks and pulls, so it would make sense from certain viewpoints, but it's important to know.

2) You said, Grievous can climb (almost) everywhere he wants. So he can also climb up that wall?

3) One cannot fly with the ball, but can R2 fly around in the pit as he likes, as long as he doesn't carry the ball?

I will post again sometimes later today about other things (at least I plan to) but right now it's lunch time at my place.
  1. Yes I suppose, but that player can also push them back. Nonetheless that's a variable we can't really determine. And knockbacks and pulls are not disabled. Only uber abilities are not allowed.

  2. I'm afraid he can't - the logic behind these rules being that if put in place half the Huttball field would be rendered obsolete.

  3. Yes. Though he cannot fly over fires and only up to and across platforms, he cannot bypass the entire arena.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
04.27.2013 , 06:25 AM | #117
Quote: Originally Posted by Warren-Stride View Post
Also, I have yet to hear of any actual accomplishments these Rebel Commandos have done. Saying Droids<Clones<Rebels is NOT a valid argument, seeing as it's simply not true (or cannon) and makes no sense if you have nothing to justify it. I need a REASON why these Rebel Commandos are so great. Not just that they are. I myself will admit to not even knowing what they truly are, simply because we have no examples of their actions. That is why I assumed you were referring to the Rebels that were protecting the Rebel Princess, which got slaughtered very easily by the Empire you say the Rebels automatically trump.
Note we are concerning ourselves with Alliance Special Forces. Not the rank and file we seen aboard the Tantive IV.

They are basically more skilled and possess a greater array of weaponary.

The way I see it the SpecForces have the advantage in weaponry and intelligence (arguably) while the Commando droids have the advantage of agility and durability.

tunewalker's Avatar


tunewalker
04.27.2013 , 06:32 AM | #118
Quote: Originally Posted by Warren-Stride View Post
So basically, we have this:

On Separatists:

Ventress (1:30)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7JsP3tn9s0

Grievous (3:50)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIj7gIDFDe4

Durge (4:00)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6LeL3s4Q80

Dooku (1:40)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmIkpRkgaZk

Commando Droids (0:40)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PUFNiRw5Ls

Vs.

Luke (5:00)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvUtXFg65Cs

Rahm (2:20)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aajb9sgmBvM

Starkiller (4:10)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOLE7SLmRno

R2-D2 (0:25)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eg2C9K4b0hQ

Rebel Commandos (1:45)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbn-Ox1XawI


Obviously this extremely one-sided and not a fair representation, but it's called persuasive argumentation people.
And I realize you won't watch all the clips and whatnot, but hey, if you're wondering why I'm voting Seps for this round, there it is.
ventress: fighting earlier Anakin and obiwan who are clearly injured from crash landing, not that impressive.

Greivous: fighting multiple jedi 2 of which were Masters and were ataru form users when thinking of his abilities and style he is a very hard counter to an Ataru user still very impressive and was enjoyable as hell

Durge: Wow incapacitated or stunned 3-4 times many of his attacks being completely useless against the jedi he fought not really a great argument as something awesome

Dooku: ..... wait so how he died with (if you read the book) the fight didnt really start till 1:30 or 2:00 as until then Ani and obi were giving him misinformation that they were just shii-cho users as if the clone wars got them used to fighting droids and not actual people. Not very impressive at all.

Commando droids: again we have shown them to be quite capable but they still have many weakness's but i will say this puts them on par with the rebels own special forces team, I still give the special forces team the edge but thats personal oppinion really.

Luke: Again a poor showing of Luke failing here as these arent just rank and file troops Jabba was known to hire some of the most infamous bounty hunters and mercanaries it was one of the things that made him so powerful in the underworld no one dared mess with him because the heavy armaments and skills of the people that he surrounded himself with. Their was about 40 people or so on that barge and Luke soloed all of them fighting both melee and ranged opponents simultaneously even being wrapped up by bobba was not the end for Luke, with him showing to have enough skill in blaster deflection to while bound deflect a shot to cut the rope bobba got him with.

Rohm: again poor showing only the cut scenes are cannon game play isnt and in cut scene he telekentically drops that tower shows a really good skill with telekenetics

Star killer: wow a none cannon fight thats your argument.... find something cannon also i you want to use that fight you have to realize who he is fighting their thats sidious already known undisputed most powerful and greatest sith to ever exist so ya pretty poor vid to use for while Starkiller isnt great

R2: because any of us ever argued that he wouldnt die pretty quick if the enemy team took notice of him (their arrogance being the reason for it being unlikely that they do) and i dont know about you but most of that showed the little guy being able to get out of plenty of situations that and being the hero we all know him to be. Hell all you did was making LOVE THAT LITTLE droid even more.

Rebel commando's: um i see no special forces their those are the rank and file not the special forces

tunewalker's Avatar


tunewalker
04.27.2013 , 06:36 AM | #119
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Note we are concerning ourselves with Alliance Special Forces. Not the rank and file we seen aboard the Tantive IV.

They are basically more skilled and possess a greater array of weaponary.

The way I see it the SpecForces have the advantage in weaponry and intelligence (arguably) while the Commando droids have the advantage of agility and durability.
Ya this is basically what I have been saying and thinking as well except maybe not durability as they have one weak point that everyone is likely to aim for any way, their head is just as vunerable as the B1's

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
04.27.2013 , 07:26 AM | #120
Concerning Grievous: His abilities in the mini-series are clearly grossly exaggerated in comparison with his later abilities. So for the purpose of debate only Grievous' abilities displayed in TCW and the RoTS should be considered canon.