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Switching Roles


Warshades's Avatar


Warshades
04.17.2013 , 06:57 PM | #1
I wonder sometimes what condition this game would be in if the roles of PvP and PvE were switched. Let me paint you a picture.

For you PvE'rs who think the PvP players are living on easy st, riddle me this. What if Bioware announced today that all Open World PvE encounters no longer granted xp? They no longer ranted credits, or drops, or gear, or social points, or legacy xp. Killing any NPC, regardless of its level or difficult whether in an Open World or an instanced/FP no longer provided rewards. These are now considered "fun" encounters without rewards. Go kill the world bosses or random weak NPC for the "fun of it."

All quests have been removed. No story lines, planetary, or companion quests. Hell no more companions or ships or speeders. Only 1 daily and 1 weekly quest remain that will provide very little rewards.

The way you will gain xp/credits from now on will be through 8 man Operation Group. You may group with no more than 4 people, and have 4-7 random people join you. You will not be able to chose class composition, nor will you be able to remove any players that under-perform from group. If you leave the OP Group, even in the last seconds of the ops, you will receive NO reward, even if you simply go LD. In order to compensate for this, Ops groups will last between 5-20 minutes on average so you may complete more per day.

You will get gear, but it will be worse than wearing no gear. The encounters will be able to kill you within a few GCDs. Most of the Ops group will be sprinting back into a fight after repeated deaths. (No worries because we are removing your repair costs).

You will also Not be able to PvP if you so chose in the gear obtained through Ops groups, however the PvPrs will be able to join your Ops groups and have their gear bolstered to be able to complete your encounters.

Finally, Bioware is dead set on making it easier to PvE, dumbing down all the aspects of PvE so that PvP'rs feel more comfortable transitioning over. There is no new content on its way and they have stated that everything listed above is "working as intended" and the direction they want to move the game in.

Oh, and you only get points in your skill tree by leveling your valor, not your experience. So your forced to PvP in order to be competitive in PvE.
“Light thinks it travels faster than anything but it is wrong. No matter how fast light travels, it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it.”

chimex's Avatar


chimex
04.17.2013 , 07:15 PM | #2
But the same question can be reversed. PVP has a progression system. Granted, it's not as "standard" as PVE, but it certainly has one.

With your example you are forgetting (or at least, did not consider) level progression.

Now I imagine you say "level progression does not make a good PVP'er!" Tbh, I could not agree more!!! However, it does not make a good PVE'er either. When it comes to level progression, a player should utilize the tools she is given. Unfortunately, for both PVE and PVP, this does not always happen.

However, what does happen all too often, is this....

Rubbish player hiits level cap. They march through the process (both PVE and PVP) and slowly gain the gear. Suddenly, they are super awesome in either field. Now, this awesomeness does not come from the player, but the gear they were granted through the time the spent in the game. This does not equal to skill!!!

Now nobody has yet to reach the top tear of PVP, so there is no telling on how well FULL PVP GEAR will hold out. The same applies for PVE gear.

It's a two way street. Even more so now that the shells do not carry the gear bonus. People are finding their own way to fight in both fields
The Progenitor (RP): Shazmi:<Crimson Moon>

SystemProcess's Avatar


SystemProcess
04.17.2013 , 07:30 PM | #3
Thank you for pointing this out and putting it in perspective.
Alis'hir'altara - Chiss Operative
Naznys Dak-ma - Echani Assassin - Sphere of Mysteries
Darth Valmaxian Vercetti - Human Marauder - Sphere of Technology

The Vercetti Legacy

Warshades's Avatar


Warshades
04.17.2013 , 08:09 PM | #4
@chimex

The point I was trying to make, wasnt about bolster or gear, those are symptoms of a greater problem. As a whole, pvp in this game is treated as nothing more than a side game by the developers, a Star Wars FPS set in the world of an MMO. With no dynamic, no progression, no purpose, all for the "fun of it."

My point is, how much fun is running the same 5 Ops groups over and over and over and over.....with no other meaningful alternative. We are told that killing each other for fun, is the reward. It is the carrot, it is the purpose. But if thats true then the list of changes above to PvE should be a welcomed change.
“Light thinks it travels faster than anything but it is wrong. No matter how fast light travels, it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it.”

astrobearx's Avatar


astrobearx
04.17.2013 , 08:16 PM | #5
lol weak hyperbole is weak.

try again. this game is based on pve. pvp is afterthought.it sad but true. this game is based on stories and pve quests, believe me, this game can honestly survive without pvp; however, if bw took your asinine approach with pve, this game will die. the OP reeks of "oh noez they took mah i win gear, so i =m gonna paint a ridiculous scenario that doesnt make sense in order to get my QQ...i mean whine...."point" across pve players derpside"


im a hardcore pvper, i had a fully deck out EWH (augmented) before the 2.0 patch and you dont see me QQing all over these forums about the changes. in fact, i love that they change it. no lie, pre 2.0 i honest could had tank and kill anyone who didnt have at least full war hero armor and even then with enough stims and medpacs , i could still kill them without needing reinforcements.

you know, the only ppl i see crying about this, are those who had premades, and miss the roflstomp. dont get me wrong, it is fun to own a entire team with little effort, but having a premade made me realize....that those players ...did not know how to play effectively. in fact, that is what happening right now, former premade players is clueless and losing to lvl 30 -49 because they dont really know how to play. and that the problem here..PREMADE CANT PLAY WITHOUT THEIRS CRUTCHES. i was just in a WZ before reading this and i can tell you it was amazing
to see premade running around like idiots while the lower players was actually playing more effectively.


this WZ change is gonna do 2 things.

1. it gonna strengthen PROPER pvp gameplay, you know actually teamwork. no more lone hero BS.

2. weed out "the pros", who was just noobs in disguise.
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Moonshadow View Post
Because Bioware won't let my have the Jewel of the Dark Side, which would amplify my powers and allow me to take control of the galaxy in my bid for a tyrannical dictatorship.
Poo-doo.

ChuangTzu's Avatar


ChuangTzu
04.17.2013 , 08:19 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Warshades View Post
I wonder sometimes what condition this game would be in if the roles of PvP and PvE were switched. Let me paint you a picture.

For you PvE'rs who think the PvP players are living on easy st, riddle me this. What if Bioware announced today that all Open World PvE encounters no longer granted xp? They no longer ranted credits, or drops, or gear, or social points, or legacy xp. Killing any NPC, regardless of its level or difficult whether in an Open World or an instanced/FP no longer provided rewards. These are now considered "fun" encounters without rewards. Go kill the world bosses or random weak NPC for the "fun of it."

All quests have been removed. No story lines, planetary, or companion quests. Hell no more companions or ships or speeders. Only 1 daily and 1 weekly quest remain that will provide very little rewards.

The way you will gain xp/credits from now on will be through 8 man Operation Group. You may group with no more than 4 people, and have 4-7 random people join you. You will not be able to chose class composition, nor will you be able to remove any players that under-perform from group. If you leave the OP Group, even in the last seconds of the ops, you will receive NO reward, even if you simply go LD. In order to compensate for this, Ops groups will last between 5-20 minutes on average so you may complete more per day.

You will get gear, but it will be worse than wearing no gear. The encounters will be able to kill you within a few GCDs. Most of the Ops group will be sprinting back into a fight after repeated deaths. (No worries because we are removing your repair costs).

You will also Not be able to PvP if you so chose in the gear obtained through Ops groups, however the PvPrs will be able to join your Ops groups and have their gear bolstered to be able to complete your encounters.

Finally, Bioware is dead set on making it easier to PvE, dumbing down all the aspects of PvE so that PvP'rs feel more comfortable transitioning over. There is no new content on its way and they have stated that everything listed above is "working as intended" and the direction they want to move the game in.

Oh, and you only get points in your skill tree by leveling your valor, not your experience. So your forced to PvP in order to be competitive in PvE.
If you really want to switch things around how about adding repair costs for PvP deaths! Why don't you think about that one.
"Words are for conveying ideas, but when the ideas are understood, you forget the words. How I would love to talk to someone who's forgotten all the words!" Chuang Tzu

astrobearx's Avatar


astrobearx
04.17.2013 , 08:22 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by ChuangTzu View Post
If you really want to switch things around how about adding repair costs for PvP deaths! Why don't you think about that one.
this and i forgot to mention this...YOU ARE NOT FORCE TO PVE TO BE BETTER IN PVP

im sorry for the caps, but man are you guys need to get that thru your skull.

lvl 55 pvp gear IS still better than lvl 55 pve gear in WZ.
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Moonshadow View Post
Because Bioware won't let my have the Jewel of the Dark Side, which would amplify my powers and allow me to take control of the galaxy in my bid for a tyrannical dictatorship.
Poo-doo.

Elegances's Avatar


Elegances
04.17.2013 , 08:34 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by ChuangTzu View Post
If you really want to switch things around how about adding repair costs for PvP deaths! Why don't you think about that one.
And it would also require rewards to be added for simply dying/trying.

Warshades's Avatar


Warshades
04.17.2013 , 08:40 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by ChuangTzu View Post
If you really want to switch things around how about adding repair costs for PvP deaths! Why don't you think about that one.
actually I did, and noted it in the OP which you quoted.
“Light thinks it travels faster than anything but it is wrong. No matter how fast light travels, it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it.”

FrogSkin's Avatar


FrogSkin
04.17.2013 , 08:46 PM | #10
The biggest problem you have designing PvP systems that provide meaningful rewards, is the players WILL GAME THE SYSTEM.

Just remember what Illum was like when people traded kills for Valour.

PvE systems are a lot harder to game.