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Why should I feel bad about wanting to faceroll fresh 55's?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Why should I feel bad about wanting to faceroll fresh 55's?

BalphoWan's Avatar


BalphoWan
04.18.2013 , 09:40 AM | #81
Quote: Originally Posted by Malastare View Post
Sleep has helped me (maybe) see this a little better.

If I'm understanding this, the OP is basically asking for the "Right to Haze".

He was roflstomped and facerolled for weeks when he started playing. He paid his due, got his uber-gear, and now feels that its his right to inflict the same hazing on other new players.

This works great if you're trying to set up a clique or a gang (or a fraternity, though I think I already covered that with the previous two options). For a game that is supposed to be welcoming... not so much. It will appeal and cater to the hardcore and er... firmcore players, but I'd guess that the more casual majority sees it as an annoyance thats not worth the effort. Why play PvP where players are actively seeking to make the game less enjoyable for you, when in PvE you get the support of other players. Either of them can have jerks or gear-snobs on your side. Why PvP? Why subject yourself to the hazing? Just so you can haze others?

I won't say the OP is a bad person for wanting this. I can't say that this is a bad way to run a game (I don't have the stats to support the claim). I will say that facing almost insurmountable disadvantages isn't really enjoyable for me. If my reward for soldiering through it is the right to haze other new players... then I'll pass. I personally find hazing reprehensible and morally corrupt, and I can't support a game mechanic based on it, or really respect anyone who desires it.
You are misunderstanding. I am not looking for the right to haze. I don't seek out lesser skilled/geared players. I just also don't feel bad when they engage me in a WZ and I am able to defeat them with ease. I enjoy it because it makes me feel like the gear grind was worth something. There is a major difference between those two notions. I have had to make that distinction about 10 times throughout this thread. Maybe I wasn't clear enough in my OP, but please read the rest of my posts throughout.

-IceHawk-'s Avatar


-IceHawk-
04.18.2013 , 09:44 AM | #82
If the OP was stalking and griefing players attempting to level using his EWH gear then perhaps some of you might have a subtantative point.

What has actually occurred is that the OP articulated (perhaps poorly in tone) that the capability to defeat someone because you earned superior gear is neither unfair nor worthy of censure.

Welcome to an MMO; If you would like to be competitive at End Game perhaps you should put some effort into gearing your character correctly?

Helig's Avatar


Helig
04.18.2013 , 09:45 AM | #83
Quote: Originally Posted by BalphoWan View Post
You are misunderstanding. I am not looking for the right to haze. I don't seek out lesser skilled/geared players. I just also don't feel bad when they engage me in a WZ and I am able to defeat them with ease. I enjoy it because it makes me feel like the gear grind was worth something. There is a major difference between those two notions. I have had to make that distinction about 10 times throughout this thread. Maybe I wasn't clear enough in my OP, but please read the rest of my posts throughout.
Well, I must say that I also don't really feel sorry for horribly undergeared, none-too-bright lemmings who keep coming at me over and over and over and get their backsides handed to them repeatedly.
"I'm not *giving* him cake, I'm *assaulting* him with cake!" - Pinkamena Diane Pie

BalphoWan's Avatar


BalphoWan
04.18.2013 , 09:47 AM | #84
Quote: Originally Posted by ArchangelLBC View Post
Ah I see the OP edited his OP somewhat to concede that his tone was wrong. I feel it was closer to the truth and maintain you're a bad person.

But lets take this new question: Why should you feel bad for taking advantage of a gear disparity. Ah now that I don't feel you should feel bad for. But here's my question to you. Do you feel ENTITLED to have a vast gear disparity to take advantage of?

An advantage that you gain that is intentionally built into the system you shouldn't feel bad for taking advantage of (though unintended advantages gained through exploits you probably should unless they become necessary to compete). Taking advantage of a gear disparity was fine on a personal level. It created a lot of undesirable play as a whole though and BW decided to change their system.

So while a legitimate advantage exists, if you choose to use it, there's nothing wrong with that. Doing what you can, within the rules, to win should be praised. That includes using grenades, stims, warzone consumables, premades, keybinding, etc. That's perfectly legit. While they were usable in warzones that included using on use power relics and adrenals. Those are things available to anyone willing to put the effort in to obtain them, and if you don't want to put in the effort, stop whining.

Gear disparity was a big one though because no matter how you slice it, you can't ding as a fresh 50 (now 55) on your very first toon, and have full partisan gear. Yes you can get it in a week but before, that was a week of being an empty spot on a warzone, and that sucked. Sucked for you, sucked for your teammates, sucked for any opponents who cared more about competition than facerolling. Yes I giggled when I got absurdly large hits on undergeared people too, but I can admit the game is much better when gear is less of an issue, and fresh 55s, or just PVEers trying to break into pvp, can contribute.

Should PVP gear be better than non PVP gear? I've said a million times it should be. Should it be so much better you can steamroll fresh 55s with no gear? Absolutely not. The game is better overall without that crap around.

That's why, even as I shake my head at the exploits being continuously found for the new bolster, I agree with the spirit of it.
I agree with 90% of what is in your post. The only thing I would probably disagree on is the degree of disparity BIS PVP should provide a player. I probably would be in favor of a higher disparity than you. I think pre 2.0 was a little too much, but i think the gap may have been closed too much as well with bolster. But, I am a loot whore at heart. I love the hunt for gear that will make my character look and feel more powerful. Just a difference in opinion. But I agree with you in principle.

BalphoWan's Avatar


BalphoWan
04.18.2013 , 09:49 AM | #85
Quote: Originally Posted by bglodt View Post
First off stop calling the OP a bad person for having an opinion and playing the game, without cheating or hacking. I don't agree with him. I think it's self destructive as it turns away new players and ultimately destroys the game. But that doesn't make him a bad person.

If he was saying "I touch little boys for fun" then yes he's a bad man. But hes not. He's saying "I play a competitive game and gain satisfaction destroying others with an advantage (an unfair advantage due to the degree of impact IMHO) that I gained through time and effort". That doesn't make him a bad person or even a bully. Though there are some cyberbullies out there in the game.

Stick to game related opinions... Not personal attacks.
Thanks.

BalphoWan's Avatar


BalphoWan
04.18.2013 , 09:51 AM | #86
Quote: Originally Posted by Helig View Post
SWToR isn't a prison block. The fact that you got abused and violated when you were a newcomer doesn't justify an entitlement to do the same to other newcomers once you've settled in.
Please read all of my posts. I cannot keep reiterating the same clarification. I am not looking to haze. There is a major difference between seeking out lesser skilled/geared players, and enjoying defeating them when they actively and willingly engage me in combat in a WZ.

BalphoWan's Avatar


BalphoWan
04.18.2013 , 09:54 AM | #87
Quote: Originally Posted by -IceHawk- View Post
If the OP was stalking and griefing players attempting to level using his EWH gear then perhaps some of you might have a subtantative point.

What has actually occurred is that the OP articulated (perhaps poorly in tone) that the capability to defeat someone because you earned superior gear is neither unfair nor worthy of censure.

Welcome to an MMO; If you would like to be competitive at End Game perhaps you should put some effort into gearing your character correctly?
You are as accurate as you are articulate.

Hawk-Firestorm's Avatar


Hawk-Firestorm
04.18.2013 , 10:10 AM | #88
It is utterly stupid to remove expertise from old players gear unless you intend to give them something back even entry level pvp gear in return.

The reason is simple, if you have players like me who pve and pvp at lev 50 they go off run the makeb content to 55 only to find they now have no effective pvp gear they get rolled even with bolster.

If they PVP to replace their gear to 55 it invalidates the new content, something bioware failed to consider.

One of the reasons being of the insane alacrity changes which have pushed the balance so far out of wack its untrue, they effectively gave alacrity users the ability to run a accelerated process, because obviously that works out well, they didn't think about those with no perm shields like sages and the effect it would have on the increased dmg output and the insane amounts of healing going about now.

Then they removed expertise from players gear leaving them with sub par PVE gear and a expertise level lower than they had in the old outdated gear.

Result they get hammered, and PVP has gone even more insane that it was, some may enjoy getting peeled like a banana in 2 secs by a high alacrity user with scores going into the millions and think thats a sane game but I'm not one of them.

Alacrity didn't work, it should have just been removed from the game not bork the entire game to make it work, and as for expertise, personally I think it should go entirely so you have one set of armour for PVE and PVP and you just go play simple, but taking it off existing gear was a bad move, least in previous patches they gave people entry level PVP gear which was usually higher than their old stuff.

IMHO the game is now totally borked alacrity being a big part of that, where as before it was hardly used now its pretty much the only way to go. Insane just insane.

Kirtastropohe's Avatar


Kirtastropohe
04.18.2013 , 11:18 AM | #89
Quote: Originally Posted by BalphoWan View Post
There is a MAJOR difference between seeking out lesser skilled/geared players and enjoying defeating them WHEN THEY ARE WILLING COMBATANTS THAT ENGAGE YOU IN A WZ.
That is a great point. We're not talking about ganking some lowbie questing on a planet. We're talking about someone who actively decided to queue up and enter a war zone. Only in today's entitlement-oriented world there be such much complaining that a company would have to design a game system to punish people who have ground out gear in favor of rewarding those who haven't.

Fatitude's Avatar


Fatitude
04.18.2013 , 01:22 PM | #90
People need to remember that 2.0 changed a lot of the aspects wrt pvp. Vets being beaten by lesser geared people is a strong possibility because of this. He or she whoon has digested 2.0 and adapted the quickest reap the rewards regardless of gear or skill. It's knowledge that enabled some of these happenings. I for one played a lot on the pts. Guess what, when 2.0 hit I knew the tricks, rotations, ect which enabled me to continue face rolling! A players skill is definitely a sum of many components. Please all of you lowbie Heros roll on over to shadowlands, I'd be happy to show you how real pvp vets perform! !

Ps. If your too lazy to put in the effort for gear which makes you a stronger player, then it's time to go! Get too 55 gear up and play some ranked. Your skill is all that matters then!