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Why should I feel bad about wanting to faceroll fresh 55's?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Why should I feel bad about wanting to faceroll fresh 55's?

Malastare's Avatar


Malastare
04.18.2013 , 08:01 AM | #71
Sleep has helped me (maybe) see this a little better.

If I'm understanding this, the OP is basically asking for the "Right to Haze".

He was roflstomped and facerolled for weeks when he started playing. He paid his due, got his uber-gear, and now feels that its his right to inflict the same hazing on other new players.

This works great if you're trying to set up a clique or a gang (or a fraternity, though I think I already covered that with the previous two options). For a game that is supposed to be welcoming... not so much. It will appeal and cater to the hardcore and er... firmcore players, but I'd guess that the more casual majority sees it as an annoyance thats not worth the effort. Why play PvP where players are actively seeking to make the game less enjoyable for you, when in PvE you get the support of other players. Either of them can have jerks or gear-snobs on your side. Why PvP? Why subject yourself to the hazing? Just so you can haze others?

I won't say the OP is a bad person for wanting this. I can't say that this is a bad way to run a game (I don't have the stats to support the claim). I will say that facing almost insurmountable disadvantages isn't really enjoyable for me. If my reward for soldiering through it is the right to haze other new players... then I'll pass. I personally find hazing reprehensible and morally corrupt, and I can't support a game mechanic based on it, or really respect anyone who desires it.

ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
04.18.2013 , 08:32 AM | #72
Ah I see the OP edited his OP somewhat to concede that his tone was wrong. I feel it was closer to the truth and maintain you're a bad person.

But lets take this new question: Why should you feel bad for taking advantage of a gear disparity. Ah now that I don't feel you should feel bad for. But here's my question to you. Do you feel ENTITLED to have a vast gear disparity to take advantage of?

An advantage that you gain that is intentionally built into the system you shouldn't feel bad for taking advantage of (though unintended advantages gained through exploits you probably should unless they become necessary to compete). Taking advantage of a gear disparity was fine on a personal level. It created a lot of undesirable play as a whole though and BW decided to change their system.

So while a legitimate advantage exists, if you choose to use it, there's nothing wrong with that. Doing what you can, within the rules, to win should be praised. That includes using grenades, stims, warzone consumables, premades, keybinding, etc. That's perfectly legit. While they were usable in warzones that included using on use power relics and adrenals. Those are things available to anyone willing to put the effort in to obtain them, and if you don't want to put in the effort, stop whining.

Gear disparity was a big one though because no matter how you slice it, you can't ding as a fresh 50 (now 55) on your very first toon, and have full partisan gear. Yes you can get it in a week but before, that was a week of being an empty spot on a warzone, and that sucked. Sucked for you, sucked for your teammates, sucked for any opponents who cared more about competition than facerolling. Yes I giggled when I got absurdly large hits on undergeared people too, but I can admit the game is much better when gear is less of an issue, and fresh 55s, or just PVEers trying to break into pvp, can contribute.

Should PVP gear be better than non PVP gear? I've said a million times it should be. Should it be so much better you can steamroll fresh 55s with no gear? Absolutely not. The game is better overall without that crap around.

That's why, even as I shake my head at the exploits being continuously found for the new bolster, I agree with the spirit of it.
In update 2.9 the game will simply uninstall itself for you.

-Wnd

Kirtastropohe's Avatar


Kirtastropohe
04.18.2013 , 09:04 AM | #73
I love how a BW created issue has become a situation where people are now being blamed as being unsporting or bullies because they don't advocate a system that flies in the face of achievement. Seriously, I have no problem when someone beats me in a WZ. How often is it 1/1 anyway? usually some sniper or ranged person taking potshots at you anyway. Maybe some of the "skilled" players can find a way to keep themselves alive when focused, but whatever..

I do have a problem with people thinking that it's wrong to want to secure an advantage over another. Hell, that's 99% of human behavior, in and out of game. Heck, in the wild, predators don't go out and try to take down a gazelle in its prime, they look to pick off the weak, sick, or otherwise infirmed. In other words, they look for the situation that where they have the advantage. That's the natural order of things.

The whole premise of the end game, whether pve or pvp is to engage in activies that will secure you an advantage. That means better gear. Those are the time sinks we accept in our quest to have the best endgame gear for our respective activity (PVP of PVE). Why are people grinding this gear? To show it off? No, it's to be able to complete the hard modes (PVE) or achieve the top tier of pvp gear.

Whether it's real life or a game, common sense dictactes that there is a progression, and someone is always going to be down the road a bit more than you and have an advantage. We deal with it and grind the gear out. The "fair" concept is that everyone can have that same advantage when they secure the gear (and anyone can do it). The system does NOT work that way now.

Someone will always have an advantage. Somehow, this sick, twisted world has gotten to the point where people think it makes sense to punish achievement and reward non-achievement. I honestly have no idea what gear to use, slots to keep empty, or whatever other jury-rigged solution to implement to have the proper gear in PVP now. That in and of itself is the problem.

bglodt's Avatar


bglodt
04.18.2013 , 09:12 AM | #74
First off stop calling the OP a bad person for having an opinion and playing the game, without cheating or hacking. I don't agree with him. I think it's self destructive as it turns away new players and ultimately destroys the game. But that doesn't make him a bad person.

If he was saying "I touch little boys for fun" then yes he's a bad man. But hes not. He's saying "I play a competitive game and gain satisfaction destroying others with an advantage (an unfair advantage due to the degree of impact IMHO) that I gained through time and effort". That doesn't make him a bad person or even a bully. Though there are some cyberbullies out there in the game.

Stick to game related opinions... Not personal attacks.
Zenick Bladeborne, 50 Vanguard, Tranquility, JC
Zenfor Bladeborne, 50 Jedi Sentinel, Tranquility, JC

I play the vaunted 31/31/31 spec... It's not that good though.

Helig's Avatar


Helig
04.18.2013 , 09:14 AM | #75
Quote: Originally Posted by Malastare View Post
Sleep has helped me (maybe) see this a little better.

If I'm understanding this, the OP is basically asking for the "Right to Haze".

He was roflstomped and facerolled for weeks when he started playing. He paid his due, got his uber-gear, and now feels that its his right to inflict the same hazing on other new players.
SWToR isn't a prison block. The fact that you got abused and violated when you were a newcomer doesn't justify an entitlement to do the same to other newcomers once you've settled in.
"I'm not *giving* him cake, I'm *assaulting* him with cake!" - Pinkamena Diane Pie

dcgregorya's Avatar


dcgregorya
04.18.2013 , 09:15 AM | #76
You don't need to feel ashamed that you enjoy it but it is bad for the game and I'd hope that much like using God codes, you'd rather have *some* challenge in your day to day PVP and quickly grow bored of 2 shotting recruit gear players.

Helig's Avatar


Helig
04.18.2013 , 09:17 AM | #77
Quote: Originally Posted by dcgregorya View Post
You don't need to feel ashamed that you enjoy it but it is bad for the game and I'd hope that much like using God codes, you'd rather have *some* challenge in your day to day PVP and quickly grow bored of 2 shotting recruit gear players.
Having fun with godmode in single player games comes at the expense of bots, not real people. The difference is in the details.
"I'm not *giving* him cake, I'm *assaulting* him with cake!" - Pinkamena Diane Pie

dcgregorya's Avatar


dcgregorya
04.18.2013 , 09:21 AM | #78
Quote: Originally Posted by Helig View Post
Having fun with godmode in single player games comes at the expense of bots, not real people. The difference is in the details.
Well yeah exactly. When 2.0 first came out and my naked sniper was 3 shotting people it was fun...for like 5-10 minutes. Then I switched toons because steamrolling people match after match is boring. Its just not good for the game, not good for the "victim" and not good for the "veteran" and not good when you have to carry those people on your own team.

Kirtastropohe's Avatar


Kirtastropohe
04.18.2013 , 09:31 AM | #79
Quote: Originally Posted by Helig View Post
SWToR isn't a prison block.
That was funny... I needed a good laugh today

BalphoWan's Avatar


BalphoWan
04.18.2013 , 09:37 AM | #80
Quote: Originally Posted by ArchangelLBC View Post
Who said either was honorable? If you enjoy facerolling people you're a bad person. If you don't think people should be facerolled then you shouldn't do it. If you enjoy doing it then you like that people get facerolled ergo you are a bad person.

You can look at where your time and effort have gotten you, and be appreciative of that, but you should want to take that skill into an environment where it can actually shine. Facerolling bads is what people who say they have skill do when all they have is mediocrity and a big ego.

TL;DR No one said it was better, you're still a bad person. I don't have to read the rest of your idiotic drek.
So what should I do huh?? When I go up against a willing opponent in a WZ that is less skilled/geared, should I just leave him alone because it would be unfair for me to defeat him in 4 GCD's? Should I take a dive and let him win so we can all be nice to each other and WZ's can be sunshine and rainbows??? I don't think you understand what I have been trying to say. There is a MAJOR difference between seeking out lesser skilled/geared players and enjoying defeating them WHEN THEY ARE WILLING COMBATANTS THAT ENGAGE YOU IN A WZ.