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The Fix to Bolster


Tragamite

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BW we really need you to look at this and make it work right!

 

1st - Bolster is a stat increase to give everyone an even playing field in PvP, how you make that work is look at it in 55 PvP. 55 PvP should not rely on the bolster stat, it should be based on progression in PvP play!

 

2nd - Bolster is effecting the wrong aspects of the game. With 2.0 bolster made not wearing gear the best option and now not using mods in gear seems the best option. This is in no way a fix.

 

How to fix it!

 

Level: At level 55 players should have the same base stats, Primary, Secondary and Endurance. Players who have gone to great lengths and improved base stats through Datacrons are rewarded with higher then base stats. This should be the only stat advantage at level 55 and on down.

 

Gear: PvE gear is designed to have more base stats and no Expertise while PvP gear is given Expertise to suppliment base stats against other players. So taking PvP gear into a PvE environment is not the best for the job, so true should be the case in taking PvE gear into PvP. It'll get the job done but not the best for the situation. But wearing no gear should leave you completely defensless in either case!

Skill: This is the players stat. This can not be assisted in any way except with practice! Those who achieve top end gear should have practice! However, if they do not, gear will not save them from skilled players!

How Bolster should be applied!

 

1- To level: Base stats for the current level of the character are bolstered to the highest level that they should have. This should set everyone still on a common groud with primary, secondary and endurance based on a character at level 55 would have. =NO change at 55 PvP, big boost to level 10!

 

2- Gear in slot: Gear also increases your stats as you level but does not permanently affect your base stats. No gear in slot = no increase in stats! Gear that can be worn by a level 1 character should only give the character level 1 stats. This is based off the highest modification in slot. Armoring 18, Mod 20 and Enhancement 22 cannot be worn by a level 21 or below it is now level 22 gear! Bolster would then buff the Armoring and Mod to being level 22s. This eliminates the naked PvP altogether and brings gear to the level that it is "meant for."

 

3- Gear by type: Bolster should ajust stats in 3 ways, 1st Expertise, 2nd Endurance, 3 Base/Improvment stat. Does the equiped gear have an expertise stat? Y/N, Y = Gear is given 100% value of the Expertise on that gear; N = Gear is bolstered to 70% of the max expertise value that is available to that slot. So switching out a PvE Armoring and leaving PvP Mod and Enhancement, that piece has 100 expertise, while a set of gear that has no expertise value is given 70%/150=105 Expertise. Bolster then buffs endurance based on expertise value, 0 Expertise +11% Endurance, 50 expertise +10% Endurance, 100 Expertise +8% Endurance, 150 Expertise +5% Enderance 200 Expertise +1% Enduance. Lastly Bolster looks at the Base Stat and improvement stats of the gear, 0 Expertise +1% Base, Power, Crit, Surge, Defence, Shield, Absorbtion, Accuracy and/or Alacrity; 50 Exp +2%, 100+3%, 150+4% and 200 +5% of the stats that the gear has.(0 of a stat give 0 boost) This is accounted for each piece in each slot to give a player his PvP stats

 

4- Bolster does not boost Expertise: Items with expertise should not recieve a boost from bolster as it is taking advantage of the PvP Stat. Moddable gear will account for the Item in Slot. So if 1 Piece has Expertise that piece can not recieve Bolster.

 

Bolster is looking at a level 28 player wearing modable gear in the head slot. It has an level 20 enhancement that has 50 Expertise, 10 Endurance and 9 Power, a 26 Mod that has 18 Pimary and 7 End and an 28 Armoring with 16 Primary 11 End. Without armor the character has base stats of 170 Primary, 67 Secondary and 152 Endurance this is buffed to Level 55 ~390 Primary, ~120 Secondary and ~450 Enderance. The head piece is level 28 because of the Armoring so the Mod is Bolstered +2 Levels and the Enhancement is Bolstered +8 levels. So Bolster says a a Level 28 headpiece should have total stats of ~23 Primary, ~33 End and ~15 Power, This head Piece has 34 Primary, 28 Endurance 9 Power and 50 Expertise. Bolster says a Level 28 Mod should have ~19 Primary, ~8 End and an Enhacement should have ~11 End and ~17 Improvment. Bolster buffs the Mod to 19 Primary and 8 End but not the enhancement due to expertise stat, making the overall gear stats 35 Primary (~23,) 29 End (~33,) 9 Power (~15,) and 50 Expertise.

 

 

Bolster buffs the Base Stats to level 55 + any permanent buffs

Bolster Buffs the Gear to level - Expertise Values

Bolster accounts for the ammount of Expertise on the characters gear and buffs it accordingly

Expertise should be a flat rate by piece of PvP gear so PvE can be measured against it.

Head, Chest, Hands, Legs, Feet = 150 ea. Wrist, Waist = 50 ea. MH, OH = 200 ea. Ear, Implant, Relic = 50 ea.

 

Total PvP gear Expertise = 1500, Max in all PvE 70%/1500 = 1050.

 

Matched up with players roughly the same level as you 10-35, 36-54 and 55, your base stats are matched up, in 55 no bolster here, gear is as good as you keep it, 55 no Bolster needed, Expertise is a PvP stat those with it use it those without get less then they potentially could have, 55 Bolstered.

 

And woalah PvP is Skill + gear + level vs same stats +/- Skill

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BW we really need you to look at this and make it work right!

 

1st - Bolster is a stat increase to give everyone an even playing field in PvP, how you make that work is look at it in 55 PvP. 55 PvP should not rely on the bolster stat, it should be based on progression in PvP play!

 

2nd - Bolster is effecting the wrong aspects of the game. With 2.0 bolster made not wearing gear the best option and now not using mods in gear seems the best option. This is in no way a fix.

 

How to fix it!

 

Level: At level 55 players should have the same base stats, Primary, Secondary and Endurance. Players who have gone to great lengths and improved base stats through Datacrons are rewarded with higher then base stats. This should be the only stat advantage at level 55 and on down.

 

Gear: PvE gear is designed to have more base stats and no Expertise while PvP gear is given Expertise to suppliment base stats against other players. So taking PvP gear into a PvE environment is not the best for the job, so true should be the case in taking PvE gear into PvP. It'll get the job done but not the best for the situation. But wearing no gear should leave you completely defensless in either case!

Skill: This is the players stat. This can not be assisted in any way except with practice! Those who achieve top end gear should have practice! However, if they do not, gear will not save them from skilled players!

How Bolster should be applied!

 

1- To level: Base stats for the current level of the character are bolstered to the highest level that they should have. This should set everyone still on a common groud with primary, secondary and endurance based on a character at level 55 would have. =NO change at 55 PvP, big boost to level 10!

 

2- Gear in slot: Gear also increases your stats as you level but does not permanently affect your base stats. No gear in slot = no increase in stats! Gear that can be worn by a level 1 character should only give the character level 1 stats. This is based off the highest modification in slot. Armoring 18, Mod 20 and Enhancement 22 cannot be worn by a level 21 or below it is now level 22 gear! Bolster would then buff the Armoring and Mod to being level 22s. This eliminates the naked PvP altogether and brings gear to the level that it is "meant for."

 

3- Gear by type: Bolster should ajust stats in 3 ways, 1st Expertise, 2nd Endurance, 3 Base/Improvment stat. Does the equiped gear have an expertise stat? Y/N, Y = Gear is given 100% value of the Expertise on that gear; N = Gear is bolstered to 70% of the max expertise value that is available to that slot. So switching out a PvE Armoring and leaving PvP Mod and Enhancement, that piece has 100 expertise, while a set of gear that has no expertise value is given 70%/150=105 Expertise. Bolster then buffs endurance based on expertise value, 0 Expertise +11% Endurance, 50 expertise +10% Endurance, 100 Expertise +8% Endurance, 150 Expertise +5% Enderance 200 Expertise +1% Enduance. Lastly Bolster looks at the Base Stat and improvement stats of the gear, 0 Expertise +1% Base, Power, Crit, Surge, Defence, Shield, Absorbtion, Accuracy and/or Alacrity; 50 Exp +2%, 100+3%, 150+4% and 200 +5% of the stats that the gear has.(0 of a stat give 0 boost) This is accounted for each piece in each slot to give a player his PvP stats

 

4- Bolster does not boost Expertise: Items with expertise should not recieve a boost from bolster as it is taking advantage of the PvP Stat. Moddable gear will account for the Item in Slot. So if 1 Piece has Expertise that piece can not recieve Bolster.

 

Bolster is looking at a level 28 player wearing modable gear in the head slot. It has an level 20 enhancement that has 50 Expertise, 10 Endurance and 9 Power, a 26 Mod that has 18 Pimary and 7 End and an 28 Armoring with 16 Primary 11 End. Without armor the character has base stats of 170 Primary, 67 Secondary and 152 Endurance this is buffed to Level 55 ~390 Primary, ~120 Secondary and ~450 Enderance. The head piece is level 28 because of the Armoring so the Mod is Bolstered +2 Levels and the Enhancement is Bolstered +8 levels. So Bolster says a a Level 28 headpiece should have total stats of ~23 Primary, ~33 End and ~15 Power, This head Piece has 34 Primary, 28 Endurance 9 Power and 50 Expertise. Bolster says a Level 28 Mod should have ~19 Primary, ~8 End and an Enhacement should have ~11 End and ~17 Improvment. Bolster buffs the Mod to 19 Primary and 8 End but not the enhancement due to expertise stat, making the overall gear stats 35 Primary (~23,) 29 End (~33,) 9 Power (~15,) and 50 Expertise.

 

 

Bolster buffs the Base Stats to level 55 + any permanent buffs

Bolster Buffs the Gear to level - Expertise Values

Bolster accounts for the ammount of Expertise on the characters gear and buffs it accordingly

Expertise should be a flat rate by piece of PvP gear so PvE can be measured against it.

Head, Chest, Hands, Legs, Feet = 150 ea. Wrist, Waist = 50 ea. MH, OH = 200 ea. Ear, Implant, Relic = 50 ea.

 

Total PvP gear Expertise = 1500, Max in all PvE 70%/1500 = 1050.

 

Matched up with players roughly the same level as you 10-35, 36-54 and 55, your base stats are matched up, in 55 no bolster here, gear is as good as you keep it, 55 no Bolster needed, Expertise is a PvP stat those with it use it those without get less then they potentially could have, 55 Bolstered.

 

And woalah PvP is Skill + gear + level vs same stats +/- Skill

 

You can't fix a huge number of highly interacting parameters by drawing a simplicistic "perfect" solution on paper, implementing it and everything's fine. If you try, you'll end up with an infinity of unexpected behaviours and bugs somewhere else, at least.

These things have to be solved within a feedback system. You make a draft, implement it, check the result, then amend and retune, then check the result again, then amend etc. This is what BW is doing at the moment.

And without being disrespectul, odds are that they are much better than you at doing this.

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You can't fix a huge number of highly interacting parameters by drawing a simplicistic "perfect" solution on paper, implementing it and everything's fine. If you try, you'll end up with an infinity of unexpected behaviours and bugs somewhere else, at least.

These things have to be solved within a feedback system. You make a draft, implement it, check the result, then amend and retune, then check the result again, then amend etc. This is what BW is doing at the moment.

And without being disrespectul, odds are that they are much better than you at doing this.

 

I should add that this should have been sorted on the PTS, but no they let the broken system hit live. PTS is for bug sorting in a feedback system, and not the live servers. BW have screwed up big time on this. They should remove the bolster system altogether and give away free recruit gear like before which should be on par with WH gear then we can see a clear progression in pvp.

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You cannot just drop bolster how will a 10 challenge a 35 without bolster? How will a 36 fare against a 54 without bolster?

 

This outline is the best chance for bolster I've seen laid out.

 

Maybe they are better at implementing testing at tweeking but I've not seen that from them thus far. I'm providing ideas that they can take to the table and test what is your fix to this?

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Don't fix it, get rid of it.

 

But no! If we did that than all those poor poor people will have to go through the gear progression and that's just not fair! I should be able to roll in all greens and beat you because I am the master of my class! I don't need no stinking armor, give me a saber and a loin cloth and I should be able to own the most experienced well geared player, because I want to. Bolster FTW!

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I should add that this should have been sorted on the PTS, but no they let the broken system hit live. PTS is for bug sorting in a feedback system, and not the live servers. BW have screwed up big time on this. They should remove the bolster system altogether and give away free recruit gear like before which should be on par with WH gear then we can see a clear progression in pvp.

 

PTS was to make sure the game did not cause PC's to explode or any other 'serious' issues. They couldn't have cared less about things like 'balance' or 'play ability'. As long as the game 'worked' they were happy.

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PTS was to make sure the game did not cause PC's to explode or any other 'serious' issues. They couldn't have cared less about things like 'balance' or 'play ability'. As long as the game 'worked' they were happy.

 

Yes but we also tested and told them about issues so they should have listened to

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i agree that bolster needs to be fixed but it cant just be taken away and anyone who sais that its fine the way it is, are just those people that dont want to work for pvp armor i worked hard for my full partesians so to see people bust into a WZ in full pve and hit crazy dmg like they do is just frustrating yes pvp is gear based its an unfortunate truth but everyone who has full pvp armor has worked there *** off to get that boost so i say to all you nubbles who complain about the pvp gear just work harder or stick to killing your computers in pve :)
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i agree that bolster needs to be fixed but it cant just be taken away and anyone who sais that its fine the way it is, are just those people that dont want to work for pvp armor i worked hard for my full partesians so to see people bust into a WZ in full pve and hit crazy dmg like they do is just frustrating yes pvp is gear based its an unfortunate truth but everyone who has full pvp armor has worked there *** off to get that boost so i say to all you nubbles who complain about the pvp gear just work harder or stick to killing your computers in pve :)

 

The whole game is gear based! Leveling you earn new gear as quest rewards, why because the game believes it may be better than what you currently have. When you reach endgame there is tiers of gear for you to be better equipped for harder modes. No one in their right mind would allow a player in sub50 gear into a HM Ops. No you need to earn the gear to play the game.

 

And then there is PvP with its invitation to all comers in and or no gear! Granted the latter has been fixed for the most part but the bolster system allows anyone to play at any level of PvP. It is completely conceivable that a level 10 can compete with a level 55 in PvP because of the Bolster system. While the system is a complimentary idea it is flawed without a mitigating factor. This factor is supposed to be expertise.

 

Someone level 34 queue for a HM flashpoint since you can compete in PvP just fine with the 50's why shouldn't you be able to compete in PvE the same way?

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You can't fix a huge number of highly interacting parameters by drawing a simplicistic "perfect" solution on paper, implementing it and everything's fine. If you try, you'll end up with an infinity of unexpected behaviours and bugs somewhere else, at least.

These things have to be solved within a feedback system. You make a draft, implement it, check the result, then amend and retune, then check the result again, then amend etc. This is what BW is doing at the moment.

And without being disrespectul, odds are that they are much better than you at doing this.

 

Isn't this what should've happened on PTS? :rolleyes:

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Isn't this what should've happened on PTS? :rolleyes:

 

If one assumes that they're all a bunch of incompetent imbeciles who don't know the basics, then one coud ask that question.

If not, then one could also realise that there might be other reasons. For example, that the PTS simply doesn't produce enough samples in terms of WZs of every bracket with enough people in every level and faction and wearing all sorts of gear during a time frame that allows to be done with testing after an acceptable amount of time.

This being so, the alternative to the current more-or-less-testing for 1 month on the live servers would be to test for 24 months on the PTS. Actually, it wouldn't even be an alternative, cause after a while people would get tired of playing on the PTS and then there would be nobody left for playing WZs there.

Edited by Cretinus
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If one assumes that they're all a bunch of incompetent imbeciles who don't know the basics, then one coud ask that question.

If not, then one could also realise that there might be other reasons. For example, that the PTS simply doesn't produce enough samples in terms of WZs of every bracket with enough people in every level and faction and wearing all sorts of gear during a time frame that allows to be done with testing after an acceptable amount of time.

This being so, the alternative to the current more-or-less-testing for 1 month on the live servers would be to test for 24 months on the PTS. Actually, it wouldn't even be an alternative, cause after a while people would get tired of playing on the PTS and then there would be nobody left for playing WZs there.

 

Testing needs to be more organized with devs interaction on the test server. Instead of just letting the playerbase run wild and exploit everything the devs should be a premade opponent to draw data from and get feedback in real time. This gives the devs time to view how the playerbase utilizes what they are given.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hey OP, I like what you're trying to outline, however i think its a bit overcomplicated.

 

Might I suggest this thread to you.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=635206

 

Unfortunately I had the idea to post a massive wall of text, it gets lost :mad:

Just try keep it short and sweet, it seems the attention span of the forum is about... 200 words long?

Edited by Jeeses
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Hey OP, I like what you're trying to outline, however i think its a bit overcomplicated.

 

Might I suggest this thread to you.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=635206

 

Unfortunately I had the idea to post a massive wall of text, it gets lost :mad:

Just try keep it short and sweet, it seems the attention span of the forum is about... 200 words long?

 

This is very much along the same lines as I have outlined here only, although the outline seems complex, it will greatly simplify Bolster.

 

Bolster Currently=CM Gear > Low Level > PvE Gear > PvP Gear

 

What I have Proposed is Bolster=Low Level=High Level Stats, Top PvP Gear 30% > Any PvE Gear in PvP(Expertise) and this accounts for all items in slot. Bolster only helps PvErs to compete in PvP not with PvPers. To compete there get some PvP gear!

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