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2.0 BiS Gearing and Crit


GeckoOBac's Avatar


GeckoOBac
04.17.2013 , 05:59 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by SafeJungleFever View Post
Being one of the main raiders in a guild has its upside. I'm overflowing in gear currently and by this weekend should have enough to test out some different configurations. Not surprised that some people are finding SOME crit worth it. As I said, I suspect that the unfactored in surge bonus shifted the curve.

Arch, I get that most classes get a talent like that, but i'm talking about the raw math btwn power and crit.
Well crit and power are tied too, though normally we don't space enough of the curves to make it matter much. Basically more power you more more crit becomes valuable... Even if power is linear, adding the same amounts of power ends up being less and less of an improvement in %. As crit does have dimishing returns BUT is % based, there is a point of balance where some crit will be more valuable than power. The problem ofc is that power and crit share the same item slots and given the curves, crit gets "capped" early due to the diminishing return curve, while power, given the total stat pool available, remains on top for quite a while over the initial amount of crit.

There is also the fact that we can only add power and crit in discrete amounts, and big chunks of that too, so we can't really say something like "for the first 1000 points of power you want in average 3 points of crit", as that can't be done with this itemisation system.
Light Knights: Gecko - Syed - Vor'sann - Joya
Nightmare's Legion: Anhess - Avilus - Wittard - Schroedinger

oaceen's Avatar


oaceen
04.17.2013 , 06:56 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by GeckoOBac View Post
This is partially inaccurate.
here's a better explanation for you.

61 enhancements

unlettered
pool A: 45 endurance
pool B: 22 crit / power
pool C: 47 accuracy / surge / alacrity

A + B = 67

modA
pool A: 27 endurance
pool B: 41 crit / power
pool C: 47 accuracy / surge / alacrity

A + B = 68


67 ~= 68

so, in that sense, endurance competes for power / crit (almost 1:1)
the disparity is larger with the newer enhancements, but the mechanic is the same. if you have an enhancement with higher endurance, it will have lower power / crit
these do NOT affect surge / alacrity / accuracy. it has the same static value across all enhancements of the same level.

Wanchope's Avatar


Wanchope
04.18.2013 , 11:23 AM | #23
This thread seems to be focused on DPS, but I am curious about crit and power from a Combat Medic (healer) perspective.

My experience has been that high crit and surge for us are very important in keeping the raid up. Personally, I'd be happy to sacrifice some power to have high crit because its a lot more useful to hit a big heal than a bunch of smaller ones.

For example (I'm totally making these numbers up and its not this severe by any means)

High Power senario: 3250 + 3250 + 3250 + 3250 = 13000
High Crit senario: 2500 + 4500 + 2500 + 2500 = 12000

At times, I will prefer the High crit scenario. Even if it means less HPS overall, having big crits provides a lot more utility and enables me to keep my raid up better then stacking power. I get 1 good crit in on somebody and then I move on the the next person. I just want to see somebody figure out where the DR starts to really hammer on Crit. Prior to 2.0 I had a huge crit rating (like 39% tech) and was still stacking some power. Now (I'm level 54) my crit is down to 31% and will no doubt get worse when I hit 55. I plan to drop those power Mods for Crit at least in the short term. That might change as I get better gear and mainstat which will help with the crit rating.

TLDR - I plan to stack Crit and Surge for the most part at least in the short term.

GeckoOBac's Avatar


GeckoOBac
04.18.2013 , 12:14 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by oaceen View Post
here's a better explanation for you.

61 enhancements

unlettered
pool A: 45 endurance
pool B: 22 crit / power
pool C: 47 accuracy / surge / alacrity

A + B = 67

modA
pool A: 27 endurance
pool B: 41 crit / power
pool C: 47 accuracy / surge / alacrity

A + B = 68


67 ~= 68

so, in that sense, endurance competes for power / crit (almost 1:1)
the disparity is larger with the newer enhancements, but the mechanic is the same. if you have an enhancement with higher endurance, it will have lower power / crit
these do NOT affect surge / alacrity / accuracy. it has the same static value across all enhancements of the same level.
If you bothered to actually read my post you'd see that it was already covered, and it still doesn't change the fact that what I meant, perhaps not too clearly, in the first post was that you can only ever have endurance (in varying amount) in an endurance slot, while crit and power are directly competing as you can't have both on the same mod.
Light Knights: Gecko - Syed - Vor'sann - Joya
Nightmare's Legion: Anhess - Avilus - Wittard - Schroedinger

RichardNoggin's Avatar


RichardNoggin
04.18.2013 , 12:17 PM | #25
I have been wondering about combat medic also. It always seemed like medic was set up for big crits but now with the change to crit and alacrity I dont know where I should stop on either. Now its starting to look like going for power and alacrity might be the better route if its true that crits DR cap is low. I was also wondering if we should stay away from crit in our talent trees.

Wanchope's Avatar


Wanchope
04.18.2013 , 01:36 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by RichardNoggin View Post
I was also wondering if we should stay away from crit in our talent trees.
I don't understand how that would ever be a good choice for a combat medic.

GeckoOBac's Avatar


GeckoOBac
04.18.2013 , 02:21 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by RichardNoggin View Post
I have been wondering about combat medic also. It always seemed like medic was set up for big crits but now with the change to crit and alacrity I dont know where I should stop on either. Now its starting to look like going for power and alacrity might be the better route if its true that crits DR cap is low. I was also wondering if we should stay away from crit in our talent trees.
straight percentage bonus in talents are ALWAYS good as they bypass completely DR. So, there's usually no good reason NOT to take them.
Light Knights: Gecko - Syed - Vor'sann - Joya
Nightmare's Legion: Anhess - Avilus - Wittard - Schroedinger

oaceen's Avatar


oaceen
04.19.2013 , 04:15 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by GeckoOBac View Post
If you bothered to actually read my post you'd see that it was already covered
i had to post again because if you had bothered to read my other post, you would see that you just reiterated what i already said.

you're just disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing.

BanPearson's Avatar


BanPearson
04.27.2013 , 12:07 PM | #29
Calculating with 80 % critical multiplier*, the DPS-gain per critical rating point starts off as 0,016 %, switching from 0 critical rating to 1. At 300 critical rating, it's still +0.013 % DPS per point.

However, the DPS-gain per point of aim is 0,017 % (using the +6 % from skill tree as a compromise), and 0,015 % for power. So it beats power until around 75, and becomes less useful than power around 200.

Completely ignoring the variations in a high critical gearing strategy, because that has been discussed completely above.

My conclusion: If you want the highest expected DPS over a long duration, use 75 - 175 critical rating.

*normal average value for gunnery, assuming correct balance between surge/alacrity/accuracy. You might argue that it's wrong, but it's certainly 75 - 85 %, no matter what insane gearing strategy and rotation you use. Even if some tinfoil-hat wearer uses only full auto and demolition round, my number remain roughly accurate

Flying-Brian's Avatar


Flying-Brian
04.27.2013 , 01:21 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by BanPearson View Post
Calculating with 80 % critical multiplier*, the DPS-gain per critical rating point starts off as 0,016 %, switching from 0 critical rating to 1. At 300 critical rating, it's still +0.013 % DPS per point.
Could you re-do this with a value of 68% crit multiplier, since that's what you are able to get to at current gearing levels and keep accuracy where is it needed.

From a BiS list that was put together, with lvl 72 (underworld) gearing, you will have 395 pts in acc and 395 pts in surge.