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Tanks, dont need an addon only a threat metter.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
Tanks, dont need an addon only a threat metter.

faetfiada's Avatar


faetfiada
12.21.2011 , 01:28 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by TonOTin View Post
Nah, have it be in eq, if the mob is attacking you.......
Truth. Some of us didn't sign up for "EZmode".

baldurs's Avatar


baldurs
12.21.2011 , 01:52 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Zierk View Post
Totally agree @ quote.

@OP: I LOL at WoW players. You have been so coddled by Blizzard you can't function right without them handing everything to you. I know skill is something you judge in WoW by Gearscore. If the mob you are tanking is facing you... or if you are taking damage from the mob you are tanking... OMG your tanking. Your QQing at lv20 that you need a threat meter? You won't really have all the tools you need to be a solid tank until lv30 anyways. Maybe you should try to get to 50 and then reassess your tanking problems if they still occur. I mean, it might just be you suck at tanking in another game(other then WoW) because you are a product of Blizzard and are use to having it so easy. Just sayin.
I have to agree as well. WoW honestly made me a lazy tank, especially after the changes to threat that really made it impossible for any tank to lose threat. That EZmode tanking was boring and made me not want to play.
I welcome the change here. I love the fact that I actually have to pay attention, that I just can't hit one aoe button and keep everyone on me. I'm 21 right now and I have tanked everything that has come up and it has actually been enjoyable. It was a bit shaky at first due to my WoW mentality, but once you let go of that and actually realize that you have to pay attention everything changes.

Imspecial's Avatar


Imspecial
12.21.2011 , 01:54 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by SPHlNCTER View Post
They do not ever need to add a threat meter. It is a tool that makes the game easier for everyone. Good tanks can judge threat based on damage output of their raid, their cooldowns, their damage, and the healing done by the healers. Adding a threat meter will only make tanking braindead easy and incredibly boring. Any thought, skill, or interactivity will be removed.

"OMG BUT YOU STILL HAVE TO DO THINGS LIKE TURN THE MOB AWAY FROM THE RAID AND THEN PICK UP THE ADD"

Yes, but any sense of urgency is lost. Any sense of judgement will be removed and placed with "If my threat is below % then _ will happen oh no smash buttons".


I have tanked in vanilla WoW and progressed through a majority of the content originally. I would tank multiple mobs without the AoE skills that are now present in the game. I would also be able to judge my aggro. It is what made tanking fun; maximizing your damage, minimizing your downtime and damage taken while holding aggro to let your dps do more damage.

Furthermore, no threat meter means the rest of the raid has to be conscious of the fight. The damage dealers dont just lock onto their threat % and smash away at their keyboard. They would have to pay attention to the fight, their damage output, the tanks aggro, and the fight mechanics.

Adding a threat meter would reduce the quality of the endgame (and leveling) content. Group composition, raid IQ, and the ability to breathe and think at the same time are all things that make raids more fun.
I was facepalming hard reading your post, it makes no sense outside of your head.

"Furthermore, no threat meter means the rest of the raid has to be conscious of the fight. The damage dealers dont just lock onto their threat % and smash away at their keyboard. They would have to pay attention to the fight, their damage output, the tanks aggro, and the fight mechanics. "

How can a dps pay attention to their damage output and the tanks aggro, if they have no way of reading what their damage is compared to the tank, 1.5x damage to threat in SWTOR, and since we have no dps meters or aggro meters there is no way to tell how close you are to becoming #1 on the mobs threat table.

"ood tanks can judge threat based on damage output of their raid, their cooldowns, their damage, and the healing done by the healers.

How can you judge your threat vs dps threat if there is no way to see what each individual players aggro is at. Either A) tank threat is so high after the first 2-3 hits vs a DPS that threat is a non issue, which is not fun for either tanks or dps, or B) Tank threat is so close to dps that a tank must have comparable gear to a dps in order to maintain threat, this is fun because it means that you must take gear into consideration, it also means that if a raid is wiping due to enrages, then you have no idea what dps are not holding there own. aka Who is asleep at the keyboard vs who is trying hard to min max. Not having aggro meters on boss fights is stupid, we need to be able to see how close we are to a tanks threat, so we can properly manage our cooldowns.

Pawlaar's Avatar


Pawlaar
12.21.2011 , 02:06 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Xilrasis View Post
Sarcasm aside (even though the entire response is sarcasm) -- if they're attacking the next group before you then you're either moving too slowly or your groupmembers are braindead and retarded beyond all reason, both of which are issues far larger than a 5 second window at the beginning of a fight or the necessity (or lack thereof) of a threat meter.
Alright I'll give you a serious response. The point I was making wasn't that I was struggling with tanking. I've been doing it for a long time and can hold my own. I know all about resource managment, chain pulling and pacing a run. What bothered me was your implication that giving the tank a very short (come on dude you can't seriously consider 5 seconds stop and go) time to set up his pull was somehow contrary to current mmo standards. It's actually easy to do in this game because of the frequent pulls that hae non elite/strong mobs that DPS can clear out before turning on the hard hitting ones. But it doesn't change the fact that, no matter the skill of the tank, if DPS unload at the same time, it will often create problems in uncoordinated groups.

An example I can think of is the world boss on Taris (empire side). He has an ability that he casts very soon after spawning (the tank can get in maybe 2 swings) which can target the MT and freeze them for a few seconds. If the DPS is going hard off the pull, they'll pull threat (even if the abilities the tank got off are say Backhand and force scream). Sure you just taunt and hold threat again but it ruins the positioning and leads to some panicked group members. I've had this happen a couple times in ops I was leading (had a friend tankin boss while I was on adds). You can wait to setup a pull. Saying that rushing in and pulling threat is justified because it's some unspoken standard of what people expect in MMOs is a weak excuse.

-hori-'s Avatar


-hori-
12.21.2011 , 02:22 PM | #25
Imspecial has a very good point, without information one cannot make informed decisions.
Games should be about making informed decisions, not randomly pushing buttons and look at the pretty colors.

Almghty_gir's Avatar


Almghty_gir
12.21.2011 , 02:26 PM | #26
Let me qualify the following statements by saying that this is my first time playing a tank, i normally play a healer or dps.

i find tanking in SWTOR pretty easy, as long as you're communicating with your group there's very little that concerns me. taunt and guard are your friends, guard a healer, taunt the mob you're NOT hitting whenever you can (your damage should be enough to keep aggro if you're in the proper stance as a knight), and above all, if you feel you can't keep aggro on a group of mobs:
get your allies to put enemies out of the fight! sages have a lift ability, troopers have a grenade, shadows have a mind trick thingy, all of which put a mob out of the fight for an entire minute, and if you haven't managed to get control of the fight in that time, then you should probably just give up.

the only real challenges come in when specific boss mobs don't obay the aggro rules, or are immune to CC, but even those can be worked around with a little thinking and communication.
Bruglir Fellblade - Dark Jedi.
Guild leader - Vulgar Display of Power
Tomb of Freedon Nadd

SPHlNCTER's Avatar


SPHlNCTER
12.21.2011 , 02:43 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Imspecial View Post
I was facepalming hard reading your post, it makes no sense outside of your head.

"Furthermore, no threat meter means the rest of the raid has to be conscious of the fight. The damage dealers dont just lock onto their threat % and smash away at their keyboard. They would have to pay attention to the fight, their damage output, the tanks aggro, and the fight mechanics. "

How can a dps pay attention to their damage output and the tanks aggro, if they have no way of reading what their damage is compared to the tank, 1.5x damage to threat in SWTOR, and since we have no dps meters or aggro meters there is no way to tell how close you are to becoming #1 on the mobs threat table.

"ood tanks can judge threat based on damage output of their raid, their cooldowns, their damage, and the healing done by the healers.

How can you judge your threat vs dps threat if there is no way to see what each individual players aggro is at. Either A) tank threat is so high after the first 2-3 hits vs a DPS that threat is a non issue, which is not fun for either tanks or dps, or B) Tank threat is so close to dps that a tank must have comparable gear to a dps in order to maintain threat, this is fun because it means that you must take gear into consideration, it also means that if a raid is wiping due to enrages, then you have no idea what dps are not holding there own. aka Who is asleep at the keyboard vs who is trying hard to min max. Not having aggro meters on boss fights is stupid, we need to be able to see how close we are to a tanks threat, so we can properly manage our cooldowns.


If you are a dps, you can judge the tanks aggro based on abilities he has used. if the mob has any debuffs from the tank. Example: In WoW you can check initially if he has stacks of sunder armor up etc... or in FFXI the group can judge aggro based on the tanks mana (specifically PLD). Did he use any cures? Did he use provoke and flash? Is he using his TP at the right times?

If you are a dps, you can gauge your dps and the groups dps by how fast the mob is dying. You can also gauge it by your cooldowns and if you are getting lucky procs/crits. Good players get a feel for their aggro. It isnt terribly difficult. In wow, mages who got really fast crits too early in the fight would easily pull aggro. In FFXI a DRK could rip aggro off a tank any time he wanted for the first 2/3 of the fight by blowing souleater too early etc...

For a tank to judge his aggro he has to have a feel for his class. balance your own cooldowns and see how fast the mob is dying. if your group is steamrolling the boss then start using more of your aggro gaining buttons. Tanks dont do much damage in fights, most of their aggro is through abilities. WoW had sunder armor among others (most bosses were immune to taunt). FFXI had provoke which generated spike enmity and flash, combine those with self cures and he could hold aggro better than anyone (without help).

Honestly, if you think threat meters are required you are most likely one of the braindead few who become reliant on pointless mods because you are unable to multitask. Any person in our raid who complained that our MT wasnt using a threatmeter got booted. And some of you may find it stupid but our core group of raiders refused to use threat meters. When I stopped tanking and focused on my mage I never used Omen or any other threat meter. I was usually top 3 in damage done during the fight, typically losing to the rogue. This was in vanilla/TBC.

Also for the record, as raidleaders we did not use DBM either. Cleared TK/SSC and chunks of T6.


TL;DR. Stop being a bad player. Learn to play your class and get some thinking ability. Do you think people in FFXI or EQ used threat meters initially? Probably not, and those were significantly more difficult games than WoW or SWTOR

namespace's Avatar


namespace
12.21.2011 , 03:42 PM | #28
Why do tanks need a threat meter? The DPS need the threat meter. Is the mob attacking the tank? Then the tank has threat. Is the DPS pulling off the tank, how would the tank fix that? The DPS need to be aware, the tank just needs to do his thing.

If you have a bad tank, a threat meter isn't going to do anything.

Geston's Avatar


Geston
12.21.2011 , 03:58 PM | #29
But there is a threat indicator! Its a itty bitty circle underneath the mob, if you have aggro its red. But you may not have seen it if the mob was normal-large sized....or you were paying attention to the fight...or you have normal human vision.....


Yeah, threat meter please.
Tanking isn't a role. It's a calling.

FantasyMeister's Avatar


FantasyMeister
12.21.2011 , 04:15 PM | #30
Threat meters are bad for various reasons, but as a tank I've found the main ones are:

The DPS always compete to come 2nd on the hate list.
The DPS always compete to come 2nd on the hate list.
and
The DPS always compete to come 2nd on the hate list.

I like SWTOR as is. If the tank isn't tanking it then something is wrong.
"Never underestimate the power of the Force. Or duct tape."