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Is the Empire really driven that far back?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Is the Empire really driven that far back?

BrianDavion's Avatar


BrianDavion
04.26.2013 , 01:41 PM | #151
as for the tech issue, it's worth remembering that shinier doesn't mean more advanced. we have no idea if things are, or are not any more or less advanced in this era.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
04.26.2013 , 02:42 PM | #152
Quote: Originally Posted by BrianDavion View Post
as for the tech issue, it's worth remembering that shinier doesn't mean more advanced. we have no idea if things are, or are not any more or less advanced in this era.
Well we do, from this image we can make the following comparisons:

  • Beast mounts are outdated and archaic aerial 'veichles' preferred during the Great Sith War over 2,000 years prior and have since been replaced by more effective starfighters and gunships that we seen in the Great Galactic War.

  • Vibro-lances are outdated and ineffective compared to heavy blasters, disruptor rifles, missle launchers etc. and a Mandalorian mounted on a beast with a lance is entirely inferior to a starfighter or a gunship, which were prolific during the Great Galactic War.

  • The Mandalorian armour worn seems akin to the armour worn by the Mandalorian Crusaders of the Great Sith War also, as you can see its made of hides and leathers with some sort of bone or primitive metal reinforcements - designed primarily to protect against melee weapons. Hardly as advanced as the full beskar and durasteel sets we see in the Jedi Civil War and Great Galactic War which is not only easier to produce but also more durable against both melee and ranged attacks.

  • The Sith 'armour' if it can even be called that seems to be made of some sort of animal hide and likely gives the wearer minimal protection. Unlike the battle armour sported by many Sith during the Great Galactic War.

  • The traction device seems to be designed to pick up rocks and throw them at the enemy, it seems to have minimal protection and altogether an ineffective design. Likely outclassed by most tank vehicles used during the Great Galactic War which have height, durability and firepower advantage.

Altogether the First Battle of Malrev IV occurring almost 2,000 years after the Second Great Galactic War and only 250 years into the New Sith Wars seems to be an outdated and archaic display of factions who have experienced a serious recession in technological strength, far inferior to the military weaponry and armour we see during the Old Republic era.

lord_raven's Avatar


lord_raven
04.26.2013 , 03:24 PM | #153
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
There is a difference cheap and unimpressive and just plain backward. I mean if we were at war with whoever and went into economic collapse do you think we've revert to fighting with swords, halberds and maces? And started smelting armour and shields? No, we would fight with guns and modern combat gear, but equipment would simply be scarce. We don't have the means to effectively produce centuries old technology because as it has become outdated, the machinery used to create it has been replaced.

Therefore an economic collapse in the Republic should not have led to a technological retreat, but rather a scarcity in armaments. For example the Kuat Shipyards of the Empire era do not have the capabilities to produce Sith warships of the Great Hyperspace War. However if civilization was all but decimated, we'd be force to start from scratch and with limited resources and information believable would revert to spears and arrows etc. and develop from there.

Also, the Sith Empire were not always squabbling and fighting, else they never would have been able to score such decisive victories against the Republic. Indeed at times they were very much unified and conquered large portions of the galaxy, with armaments, resources, shipyards etc. And even if they did split into warring factions, they'd still possess that technology and those capabilities, but supply would be divided.

P.S. A Sith victory would not necessarily lead to this, mutual destruction however would.
If you look at the dates you would see your argument is invalid as far as the ships go, the "cheap and unimpressive" ship is 1400 years newer than the "plain backward". "cheap and unimpressive" 3643BBY and "plain backward" 5000BBY

Noel_Martir's Avatar


Noel_Martir
04.26.2013 , 04:02 PM | #154
We can assume two things from knowing that the imperial accent becomes the coruscanti accent.

1. Imps invade and capture Coruscant or

2. The Imps form a Remnant faction just like in the New Republic books, and eventually fold into the Republic.

Number 1 is unlikely because Coruscant, due to gameplay, is untouchable. So assuming number 2, Emperor returns, like in the Dark Empire, with extremist Sith and reconquer several worlds.

Theory: Emperor's plan for the galaxy (The Sith ritual that would make him immortal) has something to do with the regression of technology. Or his resurgence would finally break the back of the Republic and cause untold damage to the galaxy.

Would be a nice box expansion. Would work with a defection system. Lightside Imps choose to defect with the remnant and be part of the pubs or darkside imps stay with the emperor.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
04.27.2013 , 04:27 AM | #155
Quote: Originally Posted by lord_raven View Post
If you look at the dates you would see your argument is invalid as far as the ships go, the "cheap and unimpressive" ship is 1400 years newer than the "plain backward". "cheap and unimpressive" 3643BBY and "plain backward" 5000BBY
Note that those images and purely demonstrative and have no actual relation to this specific debate. I was merely using them as an example of how I was perceiving the technology of the time, and not mistaking them for just smaller models.

Really we can't make a comparison with ships because we have so little on them.

BrianDavion's Avatar


BrianDavion
04.27.2013 , 01:55 PM | #156
Quote: Originally Posted by Noel_Martir View Post
We can assume two things from knowing that the imperial accent becomes the coruscanti accent.

1. Imps invade and capture Coruscant or

2. The Imps form a Remnant faction just like in the New Republic books, and eventually fold into the Republic.

Number 1 is unlikely because Coruscant, due to gameplay, is untouchable. So assuming number 2, Emperor returns, like in the Dark Empire, with extremist Sith and reconquer several worlds.

Theory: Emperor's plan for the galaxy (The Sith ritual that would make him immortal) has something to do with the regression of technology. Or his resurgence would finally break the back of the Republic and cause untold damage to the galaxy.

Would be a nice box expansion. Would work with a defection system. Lightside Imps choose to defect with the remnant and be part of the pubs or darkside imps stay with the emperor.

or we can assume that the language spoken in the star wars universe, Basic, is totally differnt and that the use of the english accent in this case is mearly a linguistic story telling tool to demonstrate how the two languages relate. much like how Tolken uses saxon lingustics for rohan.

BrianDavion's Avatar


BrianDavion
04.27.2013 , 01:59 PM | #157
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Well we do, from this image we can make the following comparisons:

  • Beast mounts are outdated and archaic aerial 'veichles' preferred during the Great Sith War over 2,000 years prior and have since been replaced by more effective starfighters and gunships that we seen in the Great Galactic War.

  • Vibro-lances are outdated and ineffective compared to heavy blasters, disruptor rifles, missle launchers etc. and a Mandalorian mounted on a beast with a lance is entirely inferior to a starfighter or a gunship, which were prolific during the Great Galactic War.

  • The Mandalorian armour worn seems akin to the armour worn by the Mandalorian Crusaders of the Great Sith War also, as you can see its made of hides and leathers with some sort of bone or primitive metal reinforcements - designed primarily to protect against melee weapons. Hardly as advanced as the full beskar and durasteel sets we see in the Jedi Civil War and Great Galactic War which is not only easier to produce but also more durable against both melee and ranged attacks.

  • The Sith 'armour' if it can even be called that seems to be made of some sort of animal hide and likely gives the wearer minimal protection. Unlike the battle armour sported by many Sith during the Great Galactic War.

  • The traction device seems to be designed to pick up rocks and throw them at the enemy, it seems to have minimal protection and altogether an ineffective design. Likely outclassed by most tank vehicles used during the Great Galactic War which have height, durability and firepower advantage.

Altogether the First Battle of Malrev IV occurring almost 2,000 years after the Second Great Galactic War and only 250 years into the New Sith Wars seems to be an outdated and archaic display of factions who have experienced a serious recession in technological strength, far inferior to the military weaponry and armour we see during the Old Republic era.
one picture without context or anything else isn't eneugh to go on. I could show you a picture of a man in a suit of full plate with a crossbow, and a picture of a WW1 infantry man. assuming you knew nothing about the nature of the weapons assume the crossbow was a firearm as well, and conclude the man in the full plate was more advanced because his armor provided better protection then "useless fabric"

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
04.28.2013 , 10:08 AM | #158
Quote: Originally Posted by BrianDavion View Post
one picture without context or anything else isn't eneugh to go on. I could show you a picture of a man in a suit of full plate with a crossbow, and a picture of a WW1 infantry man. assuming you knew nothing about the nature of the weapons assume the crossbow was a firearm as well, and conclude the man in the full plate was more advanced because his armor provided better protection then "useless fabric"
But I do have knowledge of weapons and armour... so in that situation I'd be able to tell that the firearm is superior to the crossbow. However I'd also know that the infantrymen's armour is inferior to that of the plated armour, as armor such as flak jackets were not used until WW2.

Likewise I can recognise that the Mandalorians are wearing armour superseded by superior models 2000 years ago. That beast riders became outdated and archaic around the same time and that 'armour' worn by the Sith is totally inferior to a full suit of battle armour used during the Great Galactic War. Even if it is blaster proof.

xeNNNNN's Avatar


xeNNNNN
05.31.2014 , 03:59 PM | #159
The enormous problem I have with makeb to be honest is the fact that it feels completely rushed, story wise.

While I understand the fact that the republic eventually wins & has pushed us back A LOT you also have to remember that this is a game and not a movie and it takes place centuries (1000+ years?) before the events of the movies so while they do ultimately win, it doesnt mean it should be rushed into it and have the empire turned into nothing more than a bunch of thieves or a small cult. If the writers and devs want to make the game last they need to make the story last for both sides they cannot forcibly rush the story content in one direction because it will put people off, im already a bit putt off and i loved everything up to 50(even though I realised after being betrayed by baras that we were losing). after that its.... well yeah.

I know my Warriors empire eventually loses but that doesnt mean it has to be in my warriors life time... i mean really.. lol If they do ever end the game, I don't want it on bitter sweet terms, not like the other bioware titles.... that would drive me up the wall. They can still end the sith stuff on a "positive" note and leave it there without the empire completely collapsing. but thats hopefully not for a few real time years yet.

but anyway the next time would be for the emperor to return and with a large force. because you always get the sense of a large amount of military strength missing.... or at least i did. because if that wasn't the case we likely wouldn't of lost so many planets you are constantly being told that the emperor will be returning soon so Im guessing thats going to be the next expansion or at least part of it for the sith side, if they do it for the JK and end up killing the real emperor in one expansion this soon after makeb I will uninstall this game and unsubscribe.

Nydus's Avatar


Nydus
06.02.2014 , 09:55 AM | #160
Guys...

Just in terms of story pacing. This game STARTS just after the Empire has completely humiliated the Republic. In terms of pacing, it makes sense that the first act of the war is the Republic regaining some initiative.

What do we want? Empire wins, wins, wins, wins and then magically loses some big battle to make way for the movie universe? This war should be one tough slog for both sides.

EDIT: And the stories that have been told in the lead-up to Makeb are one giant disaster for the Empire. Infighting, arrogant strategies... We need an activist emperor who actually leads and has the Council under his or her thumb!

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