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Mercenary Arsenal/Pyro DPS Guide 2.x (PVE) by ODawgg

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Commando / Mercenary
Mercenary Arsenal/Pyro DPS Guide 2.x (PVE) by ODawgg

LeDri's Avatar


LeDri
09.10.2013 , 01:05 AM | #241
Quote: Originally Posted by The_Duck View Post
Slowly getting up there.
Nightmare Writhing Horror I am up to 2500-2600 dps.
Was wondering where I can squeak out a few hundred more if you don't mind analyzing.
Usually I take the 4th red circle when all hell breaks loose in the last 60 seconds or so.

This parse is the one we killed him on (i think I died the few seconds before he went down).
http://www.torparse.com/a/411106

You have used Rapid Shots too many times which implies poor heat management. The most prominent thing about this is that you have used Vent Heat only once and you have used Rapid Shots while your Vent Heat was off CD. Rapid Shots are only to be used for heat management and never when Vent Heat may be used instead, otherwise it is a DPS loss.

To give a concrete example, after your first 30'' "heavy" opener you reach a high heat level and start throwing out a few Rapid Shots. What you should have done instead is to pop Vent Heat.

As a result of poor heat management your use of HeatSeeker Missiles, Rail Shot and Unload was not optimal, i.e. you weren't able to use them as many times as you could. Also note that, although Death from Above is a great ability and it definitely belongs in your rotation, you should not prioritize it before HeatSeeker Missiles, Rail Shot and Unload.

Lastly, you have poped you Adrenal only once, you should (could) have also poped one during the soft-enrage phase in the end.

The_Duck's Avatar


The_Duck
09.10.2013 , 08:54 AM | #242
Thanks for the advice from both of you.
I'll work on my rotation a bit to manage heat better/more-efficiently

Couple questions on this fight in particular:
1. do you solely use DFA just on the adds/red-circle phases?
2. is Fusion Missile worthwhile on the add phase such as the 2nd and 3rd add phase where there are more to burn? Usually I plop an Explosive Dart on them as they are running and then Flame Thrower them if DFA is on cooldown.
3. when you HAVE to move are you usually using rapid shots? usually if i have to move then i just click my rapid shots as a default.
- The Duck

MVaglin's Avatar


MVaglin
09.10.2013 , 09:03 AM | #243
The adds come at roughly one minute ntervals, so personally I save DFA for that. But I'm not using it regularly in my single target rotation anyway anymore.

But yeah, on WH I'd hold it, depending on how many orbital strikes your team has...

Edit: Going off on a tangent here, but DFA only hitting five targets while having the same cooldown (or longer) as Orbital Strike, while also hitting for less damage and having a smaller area completely baffles me. It's not as resource intense, and OS has positional requirements that DFA doesn't, so I'm fine with it being weaker. But let it hit everything in the area at least...
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Akash - Operative Monzcarro - Mercenary
Erekose - Marauder Shatiro - Assassin

Pyrotech Mercenary PvE Guide

LeDri's Avatar


LeDri
09.10.2013 , 01:01 PM | #244
Quote: Originally Posted by The_Duck View Post
1. do you solely use DFA just on the adds/red-circle phases?
Well, to quote odawgg from the 1st post: "You can use DFA in single target situations when AoE is not needed for at least the next 60s. For maximum dps it should be used right after a barrage proc'd UL when all other abilities are on cd."

I am not *that* strict in its usage but, as said before, DFA should never come higher than TSM, RS, UL. For this fight it depends whether you have other efficient AoEs in your group or if you are on "red pool" duty. An ideal usage of DFA would be if the tank is smart enough to position the Jealous Male very near to the red pool so that you can AoE him together with the adds.

Quote: Originally Posted by The_Duck View Post
2. is Fusion Missile worthwhile on the add phase such as the 2nd and 3rd add phase where there are more to burn? Usually I plop an Explosive Dart on them as they are running and then Flame Thrower them if DFA is on cooldown.
You *could* use FM as an alternative means of AoE as long as you are sure you can keep your heat manageable (it is very costly). However, I believe its optimal use on boss fights is to pop it in conjuction with Thermal Sensor Overrides during your single target rotation.

Quote: Originally Posted by The_Duck View Post
3. when you HAVE to move are you usually using rapid shots? usually if i have to move then i just click my rapid shots as a default.
When you are on the move there is also a priority system:

TSM > RS > ElectroNet > Power Surge + TSO + FM > Power Surge + TM > Rapid Shots

I would also substitute Rapid Shots with Explosive Dart and/or Missile Blast if the heat is manageable.

JimmyTheCannon's Avatar


JimmyTheCannon
09.10.2013 , 09:20 PM | #245
Quote: Originally Posted by LeDri View Post
You *could* use FM as an alternative means of AoE as long as you are sure you can keep your heat manageable (it is very costly). However, I believe its optimal use on boss fights is to pop it in conjuction with Thermal Sensor Overrides during your single target rotation.
I've never, ever understood this concept. If Fusion Missile is efficient enough DPS-wise to use on a single target, it's MORE than efficient enough to use on multiple targets. Sure, if you need to use TSO to keep your heat low with it, then do so - but it's fantastic AOE. If the thought is "it does better damage so it should be used on the boss", the faster you kill the adds the faster you're back on the boss, so what's the difference? If you're only using it on cooldown with TSO it's not adding a whole ton to the fight anyways, and you might as well utilize its AOE.

Personally, I'll use Fusion Missile while the adds are moving. It's a good AOE that doesn't require the enemy to be stationary - hence, while the enemies are running to the pool in a group, or on EC Kephess if your group pulls the Trenchgutters out of the shield to a specific spot. It gets some good damage on them without you having to worry about them running out of the AOE and it being wasted.

Explosive Dart is good for that also, yes, and has the added benefit of being usable while you're moving if you want to position for Flamethrower, but I believe it does less damage. If the movement is a concern, though, you can always save Power Surge for that and use FM.

LeDri's Avatar


LeDri
09.11.2013 , 01:21 AM | #246
Quote: Originally Posted by JimmyTheCannon View Post
I've never, ever understood this concept. If Fusion Missile is efficient enough DPS-wise to use on a single target, it's MORE than efficient enough to use on multiple targets.
No it's not more effiecient. Don't forget that FM consists of an initial hit and then a DoT that ticks for 6''. If the adds are dead within 3''-4'' (and they most probably will be) then the rest is wasted DPS. Maybe on tougher group of adds (like in Titan 6) it might worth it, but personally I very rarely see any group of adds surviving that long. FM as AoE is much more suited on tough trash pulls like the Dustclaw Alpha groups before Thrasher.

Quote: Originally Posted by JimmyTheCannon View Post
Sure, if you need to use TSO to keep your heat low with it, then do so - but it's fantastic AOE. If the thought is "it does better damage so it should be used on the boss", the faster you kill the adds the faster you're back on the boss, so what's the difference? If you're only using it on cooldown with TSO it's not adding a whole ton to the fight anyways, and you might as well utilize its AOE.
If you use FM without TSO then you are wasting your heat on a weaker ability (double the cost and ~half the damage of TSM) and during the course of the fight you would either have to lower your APM or use more Rapid Shots, both of which lead to less DPS. I would use FM without TSO only on situations when there is an upcoming mandatory break from the fight (e.g. launch on Titan 6). In such cases you can "burn" through you abilities without heat concern.

odawgg's Avatar


odawgg
09.11.2013 , 11:22 PM | #247
Quote: Originally Posted by The_Duck View Post
Thanks for the advice from both of you.
I'll work on my rotation a bit to manage heat better/more-efficiently

Couple questions on this fight in particular:
1. do you solely use DFA just on the adds/red-circle phases?
2. is Fusion Missile worthwhile on the add phase such as the 2nd and 3rd add phase where there are more to burn? Usually I plop an Explosive Dart on them as they are running and then Flame Thrower them if DFA is on cooldown.
3. when you HAVE to move are you usually using rapid shots? usually if i have to move then i just click my rapid shots as a default.
Others have commented, I figure I'll comment as well
1. if you get all of the add sets then save DFA for add phase every time...we run with a sin tank that vanishes 2/3 add phases so I use DFA early (single target), for the 2nd add phase, then again at the end (solo target or maybe when some twisteds spawn).
2. yes FM is worth saving with TSO for add phases IMO, you can hit them as they are running to circle and then DFA them when the get there, then flame thrower, positioning can be tricky going from DFA to Flame thrower though I usually end up wasting about a half a GCD moving closer...some of this depends on how much damage the rest of the group is doing on the adds, they might not have enough health left to warrant fFT. You'll only be able to use FM on 1st and 3rd add phases which is better than using it for solo target 3 times in the fight = higher total damage.

Side Note: I personally never use FM without TSO unless I know I will have time to dissipate heat very soon, I'd rather use Sweeping blasters for the better dps/heat ratio.

3. In a mechanic heavy fight I'm using rapid shots most of the time on the move cuz I don't have my attention on my heat bar and don't want to risk going over 40 heat. But when I'm able to keep good eye on heat, I will prioritize PS+TM > Explosive Dart > Missile Blast when my heat is low and rapid shots when it's high (assuming HSM/RS on cd)

Shakell's Avatar


Shakell
09.11.2013 , 11:34 PM | #248
Have we done any simulations with the new gear tier in terms of DPS? Specifically in regard to our wonderful, funderful set-bonus? I'm trying to determine whether I should start practicing with Newset for Dread Forged tier (although I will probably still pull higher numbers with the old one due to the sheer amount of practice).
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odawgg's Avatar


odawgg
09.12.2013 , 12:04 AM | #249
Quote: Originally Posted by Shakell View Post
Have we done any simulations with the new gear tier in terms of DPS? Specifically in regard to our wonderful, funderful set-bonus? I'm trying to determine whether I should start practicing with Newset for Dread Forged tier (although I will probably still pull higher numbers with the old one due to the sheer amount of practice).
Are you referring to 78 gear? if so I'm pretty sure the new armorings/set bonus will finally overcome the DG set bonus...although no I haven't actually simulated it yet. Sad that this is even a topic of conversation for us but it is.

If you're referring to 75 gear it's about even either way with a QoL buff to the DG bonus

JimmyTheCannon's Avatar


JimmyTheCannon
09.12.2013 , 12:35 AM | #250
Quote: Originally Posted by LeDri View Post
No it's not more effiecient. Don't forget that FM consists of an initial hit and then a DoT that ticks for 6''. If the adds are dead within 3''-4'' (and they most probably will be) then the rest is wasted DPS. Maybe on tougher group of adds (like in Titan 6) it might worth it, but personally I very rarely see any group of adds surviving that long. FM as AoE is much more suited on tough trash pulls like the Dustclaw Alpha groups before Thrasher.
Uh... let's see here.

We're talking groups of adds like the spawned larva on Writhing Horror and, as I mentioned previously, Trenchgutters on EC Kephess. They generally don't die within 3-4 seconds, and again - this is DPS that you can get in *while the adds are moving into position for your stationary AOEs*. There's no way it won't help you kill them faster.

As far as it not being more efficient, I'm going to make up some numbers here as a real simple way of getting this across.

It hits up to 3 targets, including the primary target.

Say it does 10 damage on initial hit and 5 damage over time. On one target that's 15 damage for your investment. On a group of 3 that's 45 for the same heat cost (whether free with TSO or not) and cast time.

How is that not more efficient?

Regarding it being "wasted DPS" - if it saves you having to throw down just one more Sweeping Blasters than it's already saved you time even though it didn't save you heat. That means you can get back to the boss sooner, which is always a plus.