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Vanguard Nerf? Ion Cell now reduces all damage dealt by 5% while active. Why?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Vanguard Nerf? Ion Cell now reduces all damage dealt by 5% while active. Why?

Is-ith's Avatar


Is-ith
04.12.2013 , 11:59 PM | #11
actually he is right except for the pyro tree of VG. VG shield and tactics trees are pretty lacking. in 2.0 they gave us a very well needed buff to the Shield tree however tactics got nerfed if anything which doesnt make sense. As far as hybrids go u still didnt do crazy damage if u where in tank stance. Also our defences compaired to other classes DPS is definately unbalanced.

In pvp you hardly see any tanks because we arent able to stay alive long enough to do our job effectively (which is absorb damage and protect our team in any way possible, also to annoy the **** out of the healers and casters) however we are only slightly more tanky than the dps if you factor in how much damage all the classes do.

if you blow every CD you have then ya u have about 10 seconds that u can stand a decent amount of damage however they have to stand in your riot gas which they can just run out of it they have somewhat of a brain and if they are force users then riot gas is just an annoying snare which can be countered very easily with their force run thats on a 8 or 15 second CD where our riot gas is a 1 min cd (which is justified) however they force run CD imo needs to be much longer. its is a get out of jail free card that u have up at least every 15 seconds.

and again the damage with any spec in Ion Cell was pretty minimal at best. you could stack yourself to have more damage exept that makes u sacrifice about half (if not more) of your defenses so really hybrids arent that great in the first place for the VG tank (however everything has a situation that it can be somewhat useful).

Nyoromatic's Avatar


Nyoromatic
04.13.2013 , 05:54 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Is-ith View Post
in 2.0 they gave us a very well needed buff to the Shield tree
No, they didn't. It sounds like a buff, it looks like a buff but still, they nerfed the shield vg. The new skills/effects don't compensate the damage nerf, the pve set bonus nerf (the hell we're gonna do with 2% def, the 2% damage reduction was actually needed), the power screen nerf (25% on the stat points provide less absorption than the previous 8%) just to cite a few...

Is-ith's Avatar


Is-ith
04.13.2013 , 09:12 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Nyoromatic View Post
No, they didn't. It sounds like a buff, it looks like a buff but still, they nerfed the shield vg. The new skills/effects don't compensate the damage nerf, the pve set bonus nerf (the hell we're gonna do with 2% def, the 2% damage reduction was actually needed), the power screen nerf (25% on the stat points provide less absorption than the previous 8%) just to cite a few...
there are some changes they made that have been a regression however the overall did improve... especially with riot gas. however we do need some more attention i defiantly agree with that

Nyoromatic's Avatar


Nyoromatic
04.14.2013 , 09:35 AM | #14
It didn't improve, the VG/PT tank is just broken and useless atm PVE wise.

- When loaded, Ion Cell doesn't increase threat at all. To compare, DPS VG/PT abilities generate as much threat as ours.

- When activated using stockstrike, the Ion Cell is supposed to generate a "high amount of threat". Between 1 and 600 threat isn't a HIGH amount (in 1.7 it could generate more than 64k).

- The Ion Cell dot last shorter than before.

- Explosive Surge and Shoulder Cannon generate as much threat as the DPS VG/PT Explosive Surge and Shoulder Cannon while we got a skill (Guard Cannon) supposed to INCREASE the threat generated by these abilities.

Wanna check yourself, search for my logs on torparse or have a look at yours.

There are just so many problems we could write a book...

Haydon's Avatar


Haydon
04.14.2013 , 09:59 AM | #15
Yeah, ran my first level 55 HM FP last night, and I barely feel like a tank. Stuff is tearing through me incredibly fast.

I'm in full Black Hole/Campaign, with 2 Basic gear pieces now. All my augments are for increasing Shield chance.

At level 50 I had ~50% shield chance and ~50% absorb rate, as my base numbers.
I'm currently at ~35% shield chance and ~39% absorb rate.

In the level 55 HM:
I find myself popping my defensive cooldowns on fights with 2 elites. Elite turrert in Mandalorian Raiders hit me for 4K each, and with them being in pairs, that's 8K damage per global cooldown. No healer can heal through that without me using my cooldowns.

My healer buddy is amazed at how quickly my health just disappears.

Before 2.0, Tionese was the recommended gear for lvl50 HM-FPs. A full team in mostly Tionese (rest undergeared) Would find the FP challenging, but not to crazy. As long as no one was stupid, you'd be fine.

Now in 2.0, in Full BH, we can't get through the new lvl 55 HM-FP without numerous deaths, even while being super careful and slow going.

The STRESS my healer buddy and I experienced from last night's Mandalorian Raiders run has completely put us off of the new 55 HM-FPs. We won't be running these again anytime soon.

ScytheEleven's Avatar


ScytheEleven
04.14.2013 , 10:06 AM | #16
I'm pretty vocal about the nerfs to PT/VG DPS, but I gotta look at these talk about PT/VG tanking being terrible now and I just think "...uh, what?"

Tanking on my PT is amazing. I love it. I hate the spike damage my Sin tank takes, so my PT has become my go-to tank now that the DPS is been nerfed.

If you can't get through a 55 HM in Black Hole gear, then I really don't know what to say. I've tanked them all on my PT tank, and he holds his own. You need to CC elites though if there are more than two, but that goes for all tank classes right now cause our gear rating is low. I very rarely pop my shield, even against bosses.

If the threat generation from Ion Cell isn't working as intended, well yeah, I want to see that fixed...but I am having no issue holding threat.

I strongly suggest you start reading more about the changes to stats for tanks. Absorb is worthless right now, especially for PT/VG tanks. Priority for us right now is Defense >>> Shield >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> absorb.

Haydon's Avatar


Haydon
04.14.2013 , 11:27 AM | #17
The Elite Turrets in Mandalorian Raiders cannot be CCd. Otherwise we would have done that.

And in the fight with 4 bosses, 3 of them now have a buff making them immune to CC that "break on damage." Meaning you have to take damage from all 4 of them at once.

And I stack a LOT of Shield, and I'm only at ~35% Shield Chance.

My Defense was ALWAYS low before and it was never a problem.
Before 2.0 I used to raid with less than 10% defense, but I had over 50% Shield and Absorb, and I did just fine.

ScytheEleven's Avatar


ScytheEleven
04.14.2013 , 12:52 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Haydon View Post
The Elite Turrets in Mandalorian Raiders cannot be CCd. Otherwise we would have done that.

And in the fight with 4 bosses, 3 of them now have a buff making them immune to CC that "break on damage." Meaning you have to take damage from all 4 of them at once.

And I stack a LOT of Shield, and I'm only at ~35% Shield Chance.

My Defense was ALWAYS low before and it was never a problem.
Before 2.0 I used to raid with less than 10% defense, but I had over 50% Shield and Absorb, and I did just fine.
When I said "Elite", I wasn't just solely referring to the turrets in the Mando FP. I know they can't be CC'd, they are a pain in the *** for any and all tanks right now.

As far as PT/VG stats, with the new stat returns and the type of damage you take more, you can't stack absorb. You have to dump it. What worked in the past does not work now. Start dropping your absorb for defense and favor defense over shield.

Nyoromatic's Avatar


Nyoromatic
04.14.2013 , 04:38 PM | #19
I second def>shield>abso, but it still doesn't sound right with the VG/PT... maybe I need more time.

Quote: Originally Posted by ScytheEleven View Post
If the threat generation from Ion Cell isn't working as intended, well yeah, I want to see that fixed...but I am having no issue holding threat.
Don't have much trouble either, but I'm pretty sure there is a bug with the Ion Cell atm.

NathanielStarr's Avatar


NathanielStarr
04.14.2013 , 06:42 PM | #20
A jedi complained that is why. Reroll as a Jedi like you are supposed to.