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Maul.


Hockaday's Avatar


Hockaday
04.11.2013 , 01:42 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Tiar View Post
Most of my abilities like shock, maul, force lightning etc, hit pretty hard since my crit and surge are high. Shock hits just under 2k and the 2nd shock will hit for around 800. Maul crits for 2400 most of the time, and force lightning usually hits for 850 a tic, just under 1200 on crits and they crit fairly often. Maul hits for 600-800, around 1500 total on crits. I use wither when I'm solo or tanking for heroics, and that hits for 800, 1400 on a crit. The biggest factors is having surge at 77% and a high crit chance. Once I get to 55 and can get back the melee crit chance buff in the madness tree, my dps will go up even further.

It's not as much damage as deception or Madness, but I like the survivability of it. I tried the other 2 trees, and I didn't like the overall squishiness of them. Also, I can use whatever companion I want in most cases. I'm not forced to roll with a tank or healer.
Well, as an example. Most of my shocks hit for 1900-2400 plus the second shock. My Maul is hitting 2k-3.5k, wither hitting for 1k+.

Slightly higher than it was at 50...but not by much...and I'm in tank gear.
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Tiar's Avatar


Tiar
04.11.2013 , 01:48 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Hockaday View Post
Well, as an example. Most of my shocks hit for 1900-2400 plus the second shock. My Maul is hitting 2k-3.5k, wither hitting for 1k+.

Slightly higher than it was at 50...but not by much...and I'm in tank gear.
I'm also using a lot of blue mods in my gear, since he's an alt and I haven't geared him up yet. I'm not in a guild and can't run ops and HM heroics like clockwork to get there faster. When I can get him in some Blackhole of better gear I'm sure my dps will be much higher. What gear are you currently using?
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Hockaday's Avatar


Hockaday
04.11.2013 , 01:50 PM | #23
Min/Maxed DG, now adding 28s into the mix. Though, even in bh my damage wasn't a ton lower either lol. But hey, w/e play style works for you. But be ware if you try and do HMs with that spec, imho anyway.
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Tiar's Avatar


Tiar
04.11.2013 , 01:59 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Hockaday View Post
Min/Maxed DG, now adding 28s into the mix. Though, even in bh my damage wasn't a ton lower either lol. But hey, w/e play style works for you. But be ware if you try and do HMs with that spec, imho anyway.
I won't attempt HMs until I get better gear. Like I said most of my gear is fitting with blue mods, nothing past 22s, but a few purples in my weapon with a level 23 hilt. My implants and Earpiece are still tank pieces that I never replaced, but that's getting remedied soon. Not geared at all by end game standards but working on it. As I said earlier, when grouped I don't put aggro from the main tank and I don't use wither if I'm not tanking. I also control my shock use as to not accidentally pull it as well. The spec is great for off tanking when things go wrong or we don't have enough cc. I survive better than a squishy spec and I still do plenty of damage.

I'd love to see my damage with 28s slotted.
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Hockaday's Avatar


Hockaday
04.11.2013 , 02:06 PM | #25
From a tank's point of view though, unless i see proof your damage is anywhere near deception or madness, i wouldn't want you. You might try changing from wither to at least death field. Since you're in tank spec, a lot of damage is from force lightning, and w/o wither harnessed darkness builds slowly. Let alone when you don't use shock on CD.

Actually in deception you might have better survivability with greater dps. Well, better is a bit iffy...but you can use Black Out as -another- Cool down.

I can appreciate why you chose your build / gear, and honestly, i could see doing similar for solo play. Just in flash points, you'd be much much MUCH more valuable as a dps spec, in dps gear.
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Jaspless's Avatar


Jaspless
04.13.2013 , 09:54 AM | #26
I don't understand the point of having the chance to Maul from the front? For aggro? For DPS? The last time I checked tanks were in Operations to hold aggro while the DPS killed the boss. So far I haven't used Maul once in any of the new FP's or SM TFB and not a single DPS has pulled off of me. I don't see adding more complexity to the rotation if everything works fine before the new content.
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FROIDBUSTER's Avatar


FROIDBUSTER
04.16.2013 , 08:57 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Jaspless View Post
I don't understand the point of having the chance to Maul from the front? For aggro? For DPS? The last time I checked tanks were in Operations to hold aggro while the DPS killed the boss. So far I haven't used Maul once in any of the new FP's or SM TFB and not a single DPS has pulled off of me. I don't see adding more complexity to the rotation if everything works fine before the new content.

Its' simply a new component to the rotation.

Will it replace a skill outright? Obviously not, Thrash still needs to be used to proc Conspirators' cloak to get you that cheap frontal Maul, and its' obviously not going to bump out Wither/Discharge/etc as one of your big threat builders. But Maul does deal more damage than Thrash so finding a place for it in your rotation will only do good.

Of course using Maul won't put you on par with DPS, but claiming you won't use Maul because "I'm not DPS" is a poor attitude to have when trying to min/max your class. Since when clearing new content you're only barely geared enough for, every bit of extra DPS, survivability, raid support that any role can provide is a huge boost (even if its' something role-breaking such as a Tank/Healer providing extra damage, or a DPS staggering defensive cooldowns).

Omophorus's Avatar


Omophorus
04.16.2013 , 09:13 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Jaspless View Post
I don't understand the point of having the chance to Maul from the front? For aggro? For DPS? The last time I checked tanks were in Operations to hold aggro while the DPS killed the boss. So far I haven't used Maul once in any of the new FP's or SM TFB and not a single DPS has pulled off of me. I don't see adding more complexity to the rotation if everything works fine before the new content.
It's everyone's job to kill the enemy. Until overlapping mechanics (due to excessive DPS) seriously threatens raid wipes, there is absolutely no reason to leave raid DPS on the table.

Maul is additional threat, and additional damage, and the only trade-off is a lower chance to proc Energize versus Thrash. To offset that downside, Maul does significantly higher DPGCD than Thrash.

We have math and anecdotal/experiential evidence to suggest that moving to a more complex rotation has minimal impact on mitigation (including self-healing) and a significant improvement in DPS and TPS.

If you don't want to use Maul, don't use it. You'll just be playing less than optimally because you'll be leaving threat and damage on the table for no reason other than laziness.
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Aurojiin's Avatar


Aurojiin
04.16.2013 , 06:21 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
Taking the CD reduction on the stun break is really unnecessary. I mean, it's a cool talent, and maybe worthwhile situationally, but there are very few fights where it matters (basically just Toth & Zorn, which isn't even current content anymore). There was some discussion on the shadow forums a while back, and after a bit of back and forth, we determined the following build to be optimal for PvE: 39/3/4. If you want extra damage, you can trade Mental Fortitude for Expertise, but your survivability will drop somewhat due to the healing loss.
Technically it wasn't even relevant for T&Z, because the stun could be cleansed by healers specced into Phsyical.

That being said, I couldn't even imagine taking Mental Fortitude over Celerity. I guess I understand it solely from an ops boss perspective, but when there's plenty of trash between bosses and flashpoints to run Celerity feels like a massive QoL improvement just for the interrupt CD reduction alone.
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Rieverre's Avatar


Rieverre
04.18.2013 , 04:00 AM | #30
Keep in mind, opinions are subject to change, but now that I've played around with it some in actual combat conditions:
- in theory, it's worth it. In actual practice, things look a lot more nebulous to me. I find myself not using it a whole lot, especially in movement intensive fights/when enemies have slows of knockbacks.
- If I'm in any kind of close fight (I'm still in a mix of old and new mods/gear, so soloing some of the new Champions qualifies) I tend to prioritize Thrash and its higher chance of an Energize proc anyway.

I'm going to keep trying it out until I've gotten my rotation smoothed out, but I can't imagine you'd be horribly gimping yourself by not taking it and putting those 2 points elsewhere.

About the only way it could be made into a 'must have' would be for a procced Maul to always proc Energize, and we know that's not happening.