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S+V- 8 HM Progression Ranking


Messiaah's Avatar


Messiaah
04.20.2013 , 11:22 PM | #81
we also did both 8 and 16man hm and can confirm that it is a walk in the park.
it's enough to say that we needed 1 pull with 15 people to get styrak on 16man hm down, that was really rediculous. half of the people didn't knew the fight on hardmode and some of them even didn't saw that encounter before on any difficulty. overall i think you can easily clear 16 man hardmode with 14 or even less people!
Guildlead - Seven Stuck
Kereg - Juggernaut Tank
Recruitment: open

Nibbon's Avatar


Nibbon
04.21.2013 , 11:11 PM | #82
How can you compare 8 man to 16 man?

When you did the 8 man content you were probably in full 150's (63's) - after a week of doing all the content - or maybe even two weeks - if you jump into 16 man you would be a ton more geared.

I bet 8 man is a walk in the park after doing 8 or 16 man the first week - just as you are saying doing 16 man after doing 8 man is.

I hate this argument anyways, no side will ever win and it is fairly pointless. Do whichever you think is more fun. For me, I like having more people with me even though they are frustrating

Krewel's Avatar


Krewel
04.22.2013 , 03:31 AM | #83
Quote: Originally Posted by Nibbon View Post
How can you compare 8 man to 16 man?

When you did the 8 man content you were probably in full 150's (63's) - after a week of doing all the content - or maybe even two weeks - if you jump into 16 man you would be a ton more geared.

I bet 8 man is a walk in the park after doing 8 or 16 man the first week - just as you are saying doing 16 man after doing 8 man is.

I hate this argument anyways, no side will ever win and it is fairly pointless. Do whichever you think is more fun. For me, I like having more people with me even though they are frustrating
People calculated that the enrage timer is increased on Styrak 16m HM and dps requirements per person are decreased compared to 8m HM. There are objective factors, so that's why we can say that in this case 8m HM is slightly harder, just as 16m EC NiM for Tanks and Kephess was harder before the nerf-bats.

All in all, both versions are a complete joke, this is by far the easiest content so far, definitely easier than EC HM when it first came out, which is disturbing, to say the least. My guildies will be BiS in about a month, and no NiM in sight. If BW pulls another let's-wait-6-months-for-one-additional-mechanic-per-boss policy I will again personally witness the mass exodus of remaining raiders that care about the endgame of SWTOR. Things do not bode well for 2.0 and the season has just started. They completely dropped the ball by not releasing at least TFB NiM, and, to be perfectly honest, I'd rather see them implement NiM as simply a quantitative increase in difficulty, as they did before the EC NiM fiasco. Let's just say that one more painful period from EC HM to EC NiM (the period in which I saw appx. 50 raiders leave the game) will be a complete deathblow for me and the entire server of TOFN. There are only so many raiders (people that give a damn about endgame) in this game, and this laughable content does not help our cause.
The prodigal son has returned ... some people are stuck with SWTOR, for better or worse.

Kognition - 55 Scoundrel

Krazy_Karl's Avatar


Krazy_Karl
04.22.2013 , 04:33 AM | #84
Quote: Originally Posted by Nibbon View Post
How can you compare 8 man to 16 man?

When you did the 8 man content you were probably in full 150's (63's) - after a week of doing all the content - or maybe even two weeks - if you jump into 16 man you would be a ton more geared.

I bet 8 man is a walk in the park after doing 8 or 16 man the first week - just as you are saying doing 16 man after doing 8 man is.

I hate this argument anyways, no side will ever win and it is fairly pointless. Do whichever you think is more fun. For me, I like having more people with me even though they are frustrating
There is a mathematical basis for saying 16M HM is easier solely based on the healing and DPS requirements based on the enrage timers.

Regards,
KK
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. - Yoda

Drussy's Avatar


Drussy
04.22.2013 , 05:24 AM | #85
Quote: Originally Posted by Krewel View Post
People calculated that the enrage timer is increased on Styrak 16m HM and dps requirements per person are decreased compared to 8m HM. There are objective factors, so that's why we can say that in this case 8m HM is slightly harder, just as 16m EC NiM for Tanks and Kephess was harder before the nerf-bats.

All in all, both versions are a complete joke, this is by far the easiest content so far, definitely easier than EC HM when it first came out, which is disturbing, to say the least. My guildies will be BiS in about a month, and no NiM in sight. If BW pulls another let's-wait-6-months-for-one-additional-mechanic-per-boss policy I will again personally witness the mass exodus of remaining raiders that care about the endgame of SWTOR. Things do not bode well for 2.0 and the season has just started. They completely dropped the ball by not releasing at least TFB NiM, and, to be perfectly honest, I'd rather see them implement NiM as simply a quantitative increase in difficulty, as they did before the EC NiM fiasco. Let's just say that one more painful period from EC HM to EC NiM (the period in which I saw appx. 50 raiders leave the game) will be a complete deathblow for me and the entire server of TOFN. There are only so many raiders (people that give a damn about endgame) in this game, and this laughable content does not help our cause.
You feel that S&V HM is very easy and I agree (even though most people won't think the same) but you have to consider that this operation is going to be available in 2 more modes, if they make the HM very hard, the Nim would be really challenging (doable by like 1 or 2 % of the players), and I let you imagine the next difficulty.

I personally don't think they will make the same mistakes again about the time we're going to wait before next content, they made really good improvements in development rate last months.
"Real players" interested in Star Wars will find many things to do waiting for this content. Feel free to find something else somwhere else which correspond with your expectations.

We all agree that maths shows 16HM is easier than 8HM but, maths don't take care that 16 players running to reach stones with aoe damages on the head is harder to organize that 8 players doing same thing (I have plenty of examples).

Krewel's Avatar


Krewel
04.22.2013 , 06:12 AM | #86
What two more modes? Beyond HM there is NiM, and beyond NiM there is ... super-duper NiM? Care to share your insights into two additional modes waiting for us anon? And fyi, there is absolutely no indication BW has improved in delivering raiding content, S&V HM is the easiest content so far, so I have no clue where you get the impression that things have improved or will improve in the near future. The dps requirements for Styrak 16m HM are absolutely ridiculous, you can do it with 13 people wearing Arkanian gear or less ... why oh why did they release the new HM raiding content with such low requirements? BW wisdom never ceases to amaze me.

I highly doubt achievement hunting and seeker droid scouring will occupy "real" SWTOR players for months, but hey, you can maintain your illusion. My guild will try to spice things up a bit by actually running Ops for achievements, maybe even finally tackle Dreadtooth 10 stacks (provided the numbers are there), but I highly doubt the inevitable mass exodus will be prevented by these "fun" activities when everyone is running around in BiS gear, oneshotting encounters with their eyes closed.

offtopic: I am irked that they separated achi based on 16m and 8m, WoW stopped doing that with Cata and it worked fine, no idea why they decided to do that here, just confusing in the end, not to mention lots of guilds are being given the middle finger here (because finding a stable 16m Ops group in this game is definitely not something that should be considered as given); HOWEVER, I am pleased that the "real" achi can only be found in 8 man NiM - survived and timed runs, so that's pretty cool.
The prodigal son has returned ... some people are stuck with SWTOR, for better or worse.

Kognition - 55 Scoundrel

Drussy's Avatar


Drussy
04.22.2013 , 06:38 AM | #87
You should be sad spending so much time on a so disappointing game. I feel sorry for you

Krewel's Avatar


Krewel
04.22.2013 , 07:23 AM | #88
Awwww, thank you for the sentiment, much appreciated.
The prodigal son has returned ... some people are stuck with SWTOR, for better or worse.

Kognition - 55 Scoundrel

Nibbon's Avatar


Nibbon
04.22.2013 , 07:40 AM | #89
Drussy, there is only one more mode: nightmare - the confusion comes from the split between 8 and 16 (so 2 more modes would be 8 NiM and 16 NiM).

To everyone: You are only comparing Styrak - and you are only really comparing one or two mechanics. There are 8 images to split up and kill instead of 4 in 16 man. Even if the enrage timer is longer in 16 - I'm not so sure 8 or 16 guilds are hitting enrage on many fights so it seems rather irrelevant. I'm willing to admit that the Styrak fight is probably a little easier in 16 vs 8, but it isn't all that significant a difference - you cant just say, oh well the enrage timer is X amount longer therefore the fight is that much harder.

Also, I'm glad that S+V HM is easier this time around - everyone needs to do a lot of farming to get back to BiS - and without crafting it will take more time than normal. Not to mention, I find the operation to be a lot of fun and really well polished, which is considerably more valuable than difficulty for a hard mode (I'll repeat the sentiment, that for a really good guild, Nightmare should be the only challenge). Besides that, Nightmare is a lot closer than you think.

Also, to say EC NiM tanks are easier in 16m after the nerfs, "got hit with the nerfbat," is ridiculously wrong. EC NiM tanks are still way harder in 16 than in 8, or at least they were before 2.0 - I'm not going to continue arguing about Styrak or S+V, but I'd argue you on this.

Anyway, I've said my piece, I won't respond here again.

Drussy's Avatar


Drussy
04.22.2013 , 08:16 AM | #90
Quote: Originally Posted by Nibbon View Post
Drussy, there is only one more mode: nightmare - the confusion comes from the split between 8 and 16 (so 2 more modes would be 8 NiM and 16 NiM).
French traduction of the patch note made it confused in my opinion but now you're explaining it, seems evident.