Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer

EC should not be mixed with KP/EV in GF

Ocho-Quatro's Avatar

04.11.2013 , 09:25 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Seireeni View Post
Tried to do this once when gf put me in it and I think I caused a wipe. I said at the start I was there for the first time. We went to the tanks with no problem and there someone fast went through tactics. I wad told to "stand on the ground and wait till aoe lock and then run away from it". Okay, sounds simple enough. What anyone forgot to mention was that the aoe wasn't restricted to the circle in the ground, it drops a dome that will aoe my character to death before I can react if I have around 60% of hp or less, even though I'm standing around 5-10 meters away from where the dome's animation ends.

Probably never going to even try to heal that again. I'd probably cause even more wipes because I wouldn't run far enough from the aoe.
I have to agree with the person that commented that it was kinda crappy for a team to ask a person who admitted that it was their first time in the op, to kite the missiles/spikes.

My take on "first timers" is like this:

1- We were all new at least once to every Op. I have NO problem whatsoever, taking the time to explain fights to players who say it is their first time, and I try to find a balance of helping them to learn the operation, without expecting them to handle the harder/stranger mechanics in their first run, but try to show/explain as best I can. (I.E. don't put a first-time healer on the ground at Firebrand/Stormcaller... Don't put a first-time tank in the tower at the minefield, etc.)

2- I have NO tolerance, for people who won't pipe up and say it's their first time. Every time I have ever done EC with PuGs, my first question before the first trash pull, before we even enter the instance is ALWAYS "Has anyone NOT done this before?"...... if I get no response, or no one pipes up, I assume that everyone knows what to do, and the explanations are minimal/non-existent. And without fail, it always becomes apparent within the first few pulls, or by the time we hit Toth/Zorn or Firebrand/Storm, that there ARE in fact people who have not been there before... I will ask again "Has anyone NOT done this before?"...... and if I still get no response, and yet still see people wiping us on trash, or standing on the ground when they shouldn't be at F/S... that is when I get agitated and remove them from group and replace.

To reiterate: there is NOTHING wrong with being a first-timer in an operation. Just make sure you say so, so your team can help you. If a team gives you a hard time, being a first-timer in Story Mode EC, and won't explain the fights, or help you along, just put them on your ignore list and move on. Everyone deserves the same opportunity to learn that the rest of us got.

Back to the kiting at Firebrand/Stormcaller.... (STORY MODE)

7 of the 8 people in the team should be standing ON the tanks. When you are on the tanks, you get a buff that dramatically (almost to 0) reduces your chances of being targeted by the Lightning/Missiles.

1 person, typically the healer on Firebrand's side (the left) should stand on the ground, to the far side of the doorway to the tunnel to the far left, just within healing range of the tank that is on Firebrand... The dps on Firebrand really shouldn't take any damage, and stacked HoTs/Buffs/AoE heals on the tank is more than enough to keep him alive unless he is drastically undergeared.

Within a few seconds of engaging combat, a spike will fall from the sky and land on the player who is standing on the ground. It will immediately create a dome of electricity that deals a VERY nasty DoT if you stand in it, so you have to move quickly. (Do not move forward towards Firebrand, because you will likely get the DPS killed)... you will then get targeted by a missile... It will display as a yellow pillar of light, with a circle beneath you on the ground and a spinning reticule on your chest. The pillar/targeting will follow you as you move, so just stand still until the reticule on your chest stops, then immediately move out of the circle. A missile will drop on the circle with a small radius explosion, so get clear by a few meters. A few seconds after the missile drops, there will be another spike/dome that falls where you stand. It's the same 2 things cycled, until Defensive Systems starts, at which point everyone goes under their respective shield, and Stormcaller's tank will take over dropping the spikes during the Mortar Volley phase. After Mortar Volley/Defensive Systems is over, everyone jumps back up on Firebrand/Stormcaller, and the healer goes back to kiting again.

Its not really that difficult, but it takes a few times of actually doing it/seeing it to get it down right.

If I am on my Mercenary, and I am running a group with healers that have never kited before, I will handle kiting and tell the healer to watch what I am doing, instead of tossing him into the deep end of the pool with no swimming lessons. (Not really possible when I am on my tank or my melee dps, but there is usually at least one healer or a ranged dps in any given group who DO know how to do it, and can show the healer so they can LEARN.)

Well, I started this, expecting it to be my 2cents.... it's apparently turned into about my $3.50... (oh yeah, tree-fiddy)

Basically, don't get discouraged if you had a bad experience healing Firebrand/Stormcaller.... if you healed through Toth/Zorn, you probably have what it takes to handle that Op, since T/Z have a lot of area damage, and it can be rough a first timer, especially if you don't know where to stand to avoid most of the damage, and even worse if your DPS don't know..... You just had a bad group that either shouldn't have asked you to kite, or should have really taken the time to explain it.
TOROCast - Star Wars: The Old Republic's Longest Running Fan Podcast
Apos'trophe Sage - Apostrophé Scoundrel - Period Vanguard - Parentheses Shadow - Quotation Sentinel
Aster'isk Mercenary - Back'slash Assassin - Per'iod Operative
The Punctuation Legacy

ChicagoBearsFan's Avatar

04.11.2013 , 09:49 AM | #12
I'm finding that since EC is in the same que we are getting players under geared for EC. 16k HP is fine on SM KP/EV but it is not ok on EC, especially if half the group are new to the op. I agree it should be in its own que. however, this problem *should* get better as better gear is more easily attainable. Right now there is nothing to stop new 50s still
Wearing lvl 40 gear to que for EC. It may require the group to "police" others' gear more and boot them if they show up under geared.

I also don't like the lockouts as people get screwed if one or 2 decide to bail. There are not always replacements readily available.
Bearsfan - Commando Healer / DPS
Chicago - Shadow Tank
Beàrs - Scoundrel Healer
<The Jedi of Camelot>JawaSpanker Legacy ~ POT5 Server

thomasbaxter's Avatar

04.11.2013 , 10:27 AM | #13
I also agree. I find I'm queuing up and then when i see it's EC that pops, declining. LOTS of people are doing this also as when I want to run that op. It's ACCEPT OR DECLINE (a member has declined) then rinse and repeat for an hour.

Cpnneeda's Avatar

04.11.2013 , 11:01 AM | #14
Since I don't want to be the ****** that causes the wipe, EVEN IF I have been there before, I may ask for the game plan. JUST to make sure that the plans I've been involved with before, are the same in this group.

Personally I like being on the same page as the others, regardless of experience in a particular Op or even HM FP's. But that's just me. (well hopefully not just me lol)

SaNgGoLd's Avatar

04.11.2013 , 11:13 AM | #15
Well a friend of mine had a group the first day it was added to group finder, half the 50's were in 40 gears and he said only him and 2 others had actually done it, it was a nightmare.

Some of the problems he had.

He would start the fight and get his boss to 34% and then on the tank swaps he suddenly noticed that nobody was attacking the other boss and that was still at 92% (hes a tank). They then wiped explained everything went again another 3 - 4 times and DPS still attacked the wrong boss. They told them to swap etc, still didn't work. Eventually however they did get it down. went to the tanks and spent about an hour wiping because people couldnt understand why they had to stand in the shields.

On our server there seems to be a lot of idiots, especially when pugging. It isnt hard to follow simple instructions but most of the time they either dont understand english - which is fair enough, or dont want to listen. I generally dont mind helping people and showing them the ropes, but if you get a person that says "OK I understand" then does the complete opposite it gets kinda frustrating to say the least.
Sanggold Level 55 Sniper
Sanghelios Level 55 Assassin
Sangwich Level 55 Sorcerer
Guild: Genocide | The Red Eclipse

hobbesmaster's Avatar

04.11.2013 , 11:28 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by TralyanSavo View Post
Agreed. I kinda thought it was going to be in a separate tier.

That said, when everyone is at 55 and geared in Dread Guard from 50 FPs, pretty sure SM EC is going to be dramatically easier and you can outgear your way through the mechanics.

Though with the groupfinder queue for ops, my guild has always filled the group then entered through the groupfinder for the comms. We'll probably do the same thing here.
Its never going to get better then - level 55 players cannot queue for EV/KP/EC

Seireeni's Avatar

04.11.2013 , 12:01 PM | #17
Thanks for everyone for your encouragment concerning my bad experiences with EC. It's really good to know that the kiting part isn't something first-timer should be easily able to do. Zorn/Toth wasn't ridicously easy either, a few aoes did surprise me in that one, but the tank of my group was pretty nicely geared and was easily able to survive even if I had to cast a heal or two to myself. Dps caused more trouble actually, in the halfway through even I knew something was wrong since the creature the other group was killing had much less hp than the creature out group was killing, and with my experience from KPs Jarg and Sorno, that didn't look good. The other groups tank actually told the dps of his group to do a little less damage, but the dps didn't listen. This caused that we almost wiped because the other monster enraged and killed one of the tanks and was halfway through one dps when he finally died.

But anyway, maybe I should try to do this with a dps character first so I wouldn't have to kite... And I'd at least see how someone else does the kiting before trying it myself again.

Ocho-Quatro's Avatar

04.11.2013 , 12:18 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by SaNgGoLd View Post
... He would start the fight and get his boss to 34% and then on the tank swaps he suddenly noticed that nobody was attacking the other boss and that was still at 92% (hes a tank). They then wiped explained everything went again another 3 - 4 times and DPS still attacked the wrong boss. They told them to swap etc, still didn't work. Eventually however they did get it down.....
Just FYI - You really don't need to swap Toth/Zorn in Story Mode.... it just over-complicates it, especially now that it's in the GF.

For swaps, I see some groups have the tanks switch bosses while the dps switches sides, and some groups have the tanks switch sides/bosses and the dps stays put. HOWEVER, as the swaps of any kind are strictly to avoid having melee dps end up attacking Zorn with the Fearful debuff, and in Story Mode, Fearful isn't something that you have to worry about very much.... you don't need to swap anything.

The way I do it in Story Mode:

1- Split into 2 groups, Tank/Heal/2DPS and each tank picks either Toth or Zorn....

2- If I have 2/2 melee/ranged dps, I will put the melee on Zorn, and the ranged on Toth.. (I know you are asking "Why??? Isn't that backwards?? - well, it sort of IS... but the reason I do that, is because of the fact that Fearful doesn't hurt in Story Mode like it does in Hard Mode, so the melee dps can withstand it... AND Zorn doesn't stomp like Toth does, so the melee dps, if they are on Zorn, don't take the aoe stomp damage, and since the ranged is now on Toth the whole time, when he DOES stomp, only the tank is in range.)

3- When the jump occurs, the tanks DO NOT SWAP... they simply taunt the same boss they were fighting before the jump, the dps and healers stay put, and you just watch the HP %'s and make sure you keep them within around 5% of each other, and just drop them.

Quite frankly... even in Hard Mode, you don't need to swap them... (Berserk strat)... but that isn't something you will see in the GF queue.
TOROCast - Star Wars: The Old Republic's Longest Running Fan Podcast
Apos'trophe Sage - Apostrophé Scoundrel - Period Vanguard - Parentheses Shadow - Quotation Sentinel
Aster'isk Mercenary - Back'slash Assassin - Per'iod Operative
The Punctuation Legacy