Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

lol bolster

First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

BoushhDC's Avatar


BoushhDC
05.12.2013 , 12:27 PM | #1631
BW, I have another issue to bring to your attention. The Devs posted that mixing item modifications with and without Expertise in the same piece of gear will gimp you (to summarize) because of the way the bolster system is designed to recognize gear. That's true (tested) and understood. What you haven't mentioned, however, is that mixing pvp and non-pvp armor will also "gimp" you in the bolster system. For example, having a PvP chestpiece, but PvE pants will cause a significant drop to your bolstered stats vs. having all of one kind or another. And I don't mean a PvE set, I mean any gear pieces that are devoid of Expertise.

Unfortunately, this is usually the manner in which people "gear up"; they upgrade the pieces as they acquire them. But this will put them at a disadvantage. Currently it's better to wear your PvE armor and just keep your PvP armor as you get it, in your inventory until you have the full set and can switch over. This leads to a confusing situation for players since it's something that BW hasn't acknowledged or put in their patch notes, at least anywhere I've looked, (unlike the mixed Expertise in the same item issue). Since the whole idea of bolster is to make it so people don't have to worry about gear so much -- so they can just focus on PvP'ing instead -- this seems a bit much for your average player to have to sort out each time they enter a WZ since the bolster system is so opaque in how it works, i.e. you can't just examine your gear to determine how various pieces will interact until you actually get INTO a WZ.

As for you:

Quote: Originally Posted by Kaizersan View Post
Naw just you have a failure in reading all the post to see that people post here about removing it so yea hope you like being wrong.
So did you go post your views in that thread that called for the removal of bolster, or not? Or did you just continue to contribute more detritus for the devs to sift through here with no positive contribution to the discussion? Insofar as the last part goes, I can say the answer is "yes." If the sole objective of your post(s) is to flame other players for their views -- not to discuss the merits of the issues themselves -- then they are not in any way helpful to anyone, devs or players.

Bolster is here atm, BW just needs to address the bugs and unintended aspects of the new system since it's pretty clear they intend to stay the course at this point.
All men can see these tactics whereby I conquer, but what none can see is the strategy out of which victory is evolved. --Sun Tzu

BoushhDC's Avatar


BoushhDC
05.12.2013 , 02:09 PM | #1632
Quote: Originally Posted by SomeJagoff View Post
The Harbinger as well, long queues in lowbie, super lowbie, and 55. Best bracket is 30-54 though, maybe 10min wait with some new faces each time.

55 though? I've had 30min waits this last week and when a pop does come, usually double premade vs pugs....then the exact same double premade vs pugs again, 3-5 times in a row (with the same map 2-3 times in a row), then 1 person stops queuing on the pug side or the premade side, then it goes back to a 30min wait. [...]
[/url]
If I may ask, when you are experiencing the long queues how many people are you grouped with? The reason I ask is that nowadays I mostly queue solo and the pops are very fast (not more than several minutes between matches -- depending on the time of day, of course). When I'm grouped with another person, they're just about as fast. With 3 of us, the queues got significantly slower and with 4 slower still.

I have been on Harbinger since early access, and that was consistently the case. That having been said, I used to be in a largely PvP oriented guild (95-98% of those players have since left SWTOR). Back then, we would field several groups of 4 (on rare occasions ending up together on the same team and ever so often on opposite sides). What I would notice is that the queues would get progressively longer over the course of a couple hours. I came to discover that the reason was that the other faction would largely stop queuing because of us so the pops would become very spread out (30-45 minutes). BW's adding of more same-faction pvp alleviated that to an extent, but same faction pvp is relatively rare these days (especially since several server mergers) given the amount of players that are queuing from both factions. It still seems possible that the same mechanics may be present when grouped with more than one person, however, so I'm not sure that's because of anything new.
All men can see these tactics whereby I conquer, but what none can see is the strategy out of which victory is evolved. --Sun Tzu

SomeJagoff's Avatar


SomeJagoff
05.12.2013 , 10:31 PM | #1633
Quote: Originally Posted by BoushhDC View Post
I'm sure you could confirm, but when you are experiencing the long queues how many people are you grouped with? The reason I ask is that nowadays I mostly queue solo and the pops are very fast (not more than several minutes between matches -- depending on the time of day, of course). When I'm grouped with another person, they're just about as fast. With 3 of us, the queues got significantly slower and with 4 slower still.

I have been on Harbinger since early access, and that was consistently the case. That having been said, I used to be in a large PvP guild (95-98% of those players have since left SWTOR). Back then, we would field several groups of 4 (on rare occasions ending up together on the same team and ever so often on opposite sides). What I would notice is that the queues would get progressively longer over the course of a couple hours. I came to discover that the reason was that the other faction would largely stop queuing because of us so the pops would become very spread out (30-45 minutes). BW's adding of more same-faction pvp alleviated that to an extent, but same faction pvp is relatively rare these days given the amount of players that are queuing from both factions. It still seems possible that the same mechanics may be present when grouped with more than one person, however, so I'm not sure that's because of anything new.
During the last week, mostly grouped with 2 or solo, both took about 15-30mins. This was both early in the morning (7-10am) and in the early evening (5-8pm) server time. Did 4 a couple of times, same approximate wait time, didn't try 3.

Solo queue used to be the fastest, but doesn't appear to be the case anymore. 2/4 used to be maybe a few more mins longer than solo, like maybe 4-5mins more at max, if that.

I think 3 was has always been sorta glitched though, I had like 45min-1 hour long waits in groups of 3 before. Usually had to relog and have everyone in the group relog, then once we queued, almost instant pop, so definitely some kind of bug. Submitted many tickets over this issue to no avail. I've also found that often if group leader DCs, that can sometimes "break" the queue. Had the same broken queue issue with 8 when queued for ranked as well, relogging seemed to "fix" it though. Frustrating nonetheless, especially if it's not due to lack of players, but yet another bug that isn't being fixed.

But yeah, times have actually been somewhat concerning to me, since my first server before several transfers was relatively dead, Very long queue times, so hoping Harbinger doesn't become that way. And if Harbinger, being one of the most populated, becomes that way, doesn't bode well for the game in general.

As for the same faction matches, I actually get a lot of those. Oddly enough, at times, I'll be on pub and get repeated pub vs pub matches.....then switch to imp and get several imp vs imp matches. Very bizarre, since if there's enough of each faction for several same faction vs same faction matches, you'd think there would be at least One imp vs pub match.
Lightsabers, Force Choke, Force Lightning, Jedi Mind Tricks, what else could you want from an MMO? There may be other MMOs out there, but do they have Lightsabers?....Do They?

Once you're in the hole, what's a few more feet?

BoushhDC's Avatar


BoushhDC
05.12.2013 , 11:18 PM | #1634
Quote: Originally Posted by SomeJagoff View Post
During the last week, mostly grouped with 2 or solo, both took about 15-30mins. This was both early in the morning (7-10am) and in the early evening (5-8pm) server time. Did 4 a couple of times, same approximate wait time, didn't try 3.[...]
That's so odd. I've experienced queues quite fast (usually solo as I mentioned) but sometimes with others. Usually the longest que I get is when I first log in and need to fit in a rotation. After that though, it's pretty quick. Server time is based on your own time zone from what I understand and I'm west coast (PDT). Dunno if that changes anything for you. Again, Harbinger has typically been quite robust for getting PvP, especially when the Aussies were here (all times were prime time, hehe).

I do remember the group glitches, though, but again I agree with you that it doesn't appear to be a lack of players issue atm, but I don't know how the PvP "groupfinder" (equivalent) creates matches and therefore may favor pugs to groups in its assembly vs. first come, first served. I can't even guess about that. BW needs to look into it on their end if there are still remaining bugs or prioritization issues.
All men can see these tactics whereby I conquer, but what none can see is the strategy out of which victory is evolved. --Sun Tzu

dcgregorya's Avatar


dcgregorya
05.13.2013 , 12:23 AM | #1635
Quote: Originally Posted by BoushhDC View Post
If I may ask, when you are experiencing the long queues how many people are you grouped with? The reason I ask is that nowadays I mostly queue solo and the pops are very fast (not more than several minutes between matches -- depending on the time of day, of course). When I'm grouped with another person, they're just about as fast. With 3 of us, the queues got significantly slower and with 4 slower still.
It is worth noting at this point that there is/was a bug where you could queue with a group and the queue would not pop for any of you because *one* of you was bugged somehow and had to relog. Would be nice if it was acknowledged somewhere but the solution is to relog if you find yourself affected by it (which, is hard to do, since you only know its affective you after you've spent some ridiculous amount of time waiting).

Astarica's Avatar


Astarica
05.13.2013 , 12:34 AM | #1636
Quote: Originally Posted by dcgregorya View Post
It is worth noting at this point that there is/was a bug where you could queue with a group and the queue would not pop for any of you because *one* of you was bugged somehow and had to relog. Would be nice if it was acknowledged somewhere but the solution is to relog if you find yourself affected by it (which, is hard to do, since you only know its affective you after you've spent some ridiculous amount of time waiting).
The bug can apply to any single person, but if any person in your group has that bug the whole group cannot get the queue to pop. I've had the same bug while solo queuing too. It's just that since you expect to wait longer while in a group queue you might not suspect the bug is in place until a long time has passed, while the single queuer usually will know something is wrong.

The group queue takes longer because a group never backfills a game, and of course if there are say 3 spots left in a game that's being formed but you're in a premade of 4 you obviously have to wait for the next game while any smaller group would get in.

Genttry's Avatar


Genttry
05.13.2013 , 07:49 AM | #1637
Good job on the bolster Bioware. Fix the few remaining problems and you will have an excellent system. I would think that there a lot more people who don't bother to queue into a warzone, or who queue rarely. If that is your target audience, then you are being very inclusive. No matter what people say, the gear gap has definitely closed and I notice a lot of new PvP'ers now. Remember this is a pvp forum and you will hear from only a biased sampling of your overall players. Keep up the good work and cheers Eric!

Khalhazar's Avatar


Khalhazar
05.13.2013 , 08:15 AM | #1638
Quote: Originally Posted by BoushhDC View Post
BW, I have another issue to bring to your attention. The Devs posted that mixing item modifications with and without Expertise in the same piece of gear will gimp you (to summarize) because of the way the bolster system is designed to recognize gear. That's true (tested) and understood. What you haven't mentioned, however, is that mixing pvp and non-pvp armor will also "gimp" you in the bolster system. For example, having a PvP chestpiece, but PvE pants will cause a significant drop to your bolstered stats vs. having all of one kind or another. And I don't mean a PvE set, I mean any gear pieces that are devoid of Expertise.
Can you say more about this, or link to a bit more detail? I saw the "bolster howto" thread, and it said the same, but didn't indicate how much one loses by mixing whole PvE pieces with whole PvP pieces. You're right --- nobody gears up by building the full set before putting it on...
Semah Valerian <Some Sith and a Spy> | Juggernaut | Begeren Colony

AlyxDinas's Avatar


AlyxDinas
05.13.2013 , 04:40 PM | #1639
Idea is good, execution is terribly flawed. There is a difference between given everyone a level playing field to work with and actively lifting up lower level players to stats beyond the general means of higher level players. The system doesn't even reward skill or time investment. If I've put in time to my class and worked hard to make it functional and useful...why does the level 30 Jugg get to come in and smash me to death in a disproportionate time?

What expenditure of effort or time did he put in compared to my own that grants him the ability to hit me the way someone in EWH used to hit someone in Recruit?

Set a baseline and let it be modified somewhat by gear stats. That's all you need. None of this strange, arbitrary formulation. If your goal is to make things equitable for players, just take the damn risk and actually offer equity vis a vis expertise from bolster and let player skill be the dominant factor of your game.

I've defended this game time and time again. I enjoy playing it. I enjoy the PVP. I loved the idea of Illum when Gabe first told me about it face to face. He seemed passionate, excited. And yet, we've seen a slow and very real decline in the quality of the PvP meta game and a seemingly deliberate neglect of this aspect of the game.

It could be so much more but you keep smacking it down. Aim high and have dignity for once, please.
'Jeos Dinas'-Ebon Hawk
Manager, The Ebon Hawk Bounty Board
"Perception Problem."

Darkshadz's Avatar


Darkshadz
05.13.2013 , 05:36 PM | #1640
Quote: Originally Posted by AlyxDinas View Post
Idea is good, execution is terribly flawed. There is a difference between given everyone a level playing field to work with and actively lifting up lower level players to stats beyond the general means of higher level players. The system doesn't even reward skill or time investment. If I've put in time to my class and worked hard to make it functional and useful...why does the level 30 Jugg get to come in and smash me to death in a disproportionate time?

What expenditure of effort or time did he put in compared to my own that grants him the ability to hit me the way someone in EWH used to hit someone in Recruit?
If a lvl 30 sith warrior, who has less talents invested than you and doesn't have his best abilities yet, can own you.... then either that sith warrior is highly skilled or you're bad. Sith warriors start to shine at lvl 40+ just so you know. Oh and reminder: although the WH/EWH set is not longer the top pvp gear, it is still viable in warzones. However, the new top pvp gear is the partisan/conqueror set and this is on what you should work. the EWH/WH was the top pvp gear for how long? 1 year or so? Anyway, have fun farming your new set.

Although the implementation of the bolster wasn't perfect, they are slowly but surely fixing the bugs. Patience, people.