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lol bolster

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Savej's Avatar


Savej
04.19.2013 , 09:13 AM | #1261
I've never seen a major pvp system so poorly conceived and executed. I had concerns before 2.0's release but I gave BW the benefit of the doubt. But that was wrong. There isn't just one or two bugs with bolster, there are major fundamental logic issues and there are many bugs.

If you look at the history of expertise it is obvious we are going in convoluted and pointless circles.
In the beginning, expertise didn't do too much. People figured out that pve gear or mixes of pve/pvp gear were best. Pvp gear was good enough for the best pve as well. So BW bumped up expertise and lowered the relative pve stats. and they gave us a recruit set that people could buy for creds. Then they bumped expertise up more and gave us free , better recruit gear. Augments slipped in there to make recruit gear have lower relative stats (compared to max WH) because few would spend a million creds to max the crappy looking soon-to-be-replaced set. And now they are bumping expertise levels even more but they're giving all gear 80% (or whatever) of the maximum expertise... When it works, mathematically, this is very similar to simply removing 80% of the expertise from top pvp sets. Which brings us back to the beginning, except the current pvp sets aren't any good for pve. Where's the pve bolster?

Nevermind the bugs/exploits, I don't even see a proof of concept. Remove bolster, remove most of the expertise from everything, bump pvp gear's other stats to be nearer the pve equivalents and you will have a better game with optional gear paths and you won't force fresh 55s to start pvping at the bottom of the gear barrel. Or just remove expertise and make pvp gear the same as pve: Freedom!

Meanwhile the two pvp issues that I personally care most about (overdependence on and over-effectiveness of healers and the ridiculous amount of cc in this game) are not getting mentioned or addressed.

Spincrossover's Avatar


Spincrossover
04.19.2013 , 09:21 AM | #1262
Quote: Originally Posted by pqgarvis View Post
As a consumer you have the option to not consume, but lets take this a step further since you broght it up. Our market is all about supply and demand, this game for instance requires demand to exist, we in turn can not consume what isn't supplied. It's the circle of existence, you mention all the negatives about the product, then don't pay for it, if what you state is true then the product will no longer exist as the demand will decrease to nothing. In a competative market which gaming is in, if Star Wars was so horrible it wouldn't exist, and they exist because you and everyone else is playing (demanding) it.

Now look at another scenario: The supply of a product with no competition that has demand

Lets say there was only one supplier of Gasoline, and lets also say you absolutly hated the supplier. You could yell you could do any of a number of things yet the supplier could just laugh at you all the way to the bank because they know that no matter what you will need fuel and thus buy it from them. What's ironic is a lot of you treat (with your actions) Star Wars the old Republic as this scenario is true.

Point here is this, Star Wars the old Republic is anything but the only product available in our competative market, you and everyone here has very viable options, please use them. If all you whiners are right this game will no longer exist.

Please shut up and make actions not words (quit paying your sub, and for god's sake stop buying items off the Cartel Market which is hands down their biggest source of revenue).

I am not saying don't give them feedback, it's just that 90% of you initiate and respond on threads like terrorists, it's a free market!
So in your opinion if I play a game where changes are made in way I feel ruins the gameplay I only have 2 options: Eat it quietly or abandon the game! So express your opinion about the state of the game is never an option for you?
I never said SWTOR was rubbish, what I (and a good number of other players too BTW) stated is that the change they made (reversible BTW) to the game also ruined my experience of the game in the process. Focus on REVERSIBLE changes!

I don't wish to stop playing the game, I wish they fix something they broke! Different story.

Let me just ask you a question: Do you feel PVP is better now?
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TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
04.19.2013 , 09:22 AM | #1263
Quote: Originally Posted by Savej View Post
I've never seen a major pvp system so poorly conceived and executed. I had concerns before 2.0's release but I gave BW the benefit of the doubt. But that was wrong. There isn't just one or two bugs with bolster, there are major fundamental logic issues and there are many bugs.

If you look at the history of expertise it is obvious we are going in convoluted and pointless circles.
In the beginning, expertise didn't do too much. People figured out that pve gear or mixes of pve/pvp gear were best. Pvp gear was good enough for the best pve as well. So BW bumped up expertise and lowered the relative pve stats. and they gave us a recruit set that people could buy for creds. Then they bumped expertise up more and gave us free , better recruit gear. Augments slipped in there to make recruit gear have lower relative stats (compared to max WH) because few would spend a million creds to max the crappy looking soon-to-be-replaced set. And now they are bumping expertise levels even more but they're giving all gear 80% (or whatever) of the maximum expertise... When it works, mathematically, this is very similar to simply removing 80% of the expertise from top pvp sets. Which brings us back to the beginning, except the current pvp sets aren't any good for pve. Where's the pve bolster?

Nevermind the bugs/exploits, I don't even see a proof of concept. Remove bolster, remove most of the expertise from everything, bump pvp gear's other stats to be nearer the pve equivalents and you will have a better game with optional gear paths and you won't force fresh 55s to start pvping at the bottom of the gear barrel. Or just remove expertise and make pvp gear the same as pve: Freedom!

Meanwhile the two pvp issues that I personally care most about (overdependence on and over-effectiveness of healers and the ridiculous amount of cc in this game) are not getting mentioned or addressed.
Great post/summary/history - I'm especially in agreement with the highlighted yellow section. Expertise has been nothing but a pain in the arse since it was released. Obviously Bioware can simply NOT get it right and I fully agree that it should be removed entirely.
All warfare is based on deception • If his forces are united, separate them • If you are far from the enemy, make him believe you are near • A leader leads by example not by force
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Pistols's Avatar


Pistols
04.19.2013 , 09:30 AM | #1264
Quote: Originally Posted by LarryRow View Post
This is the problem right here. For some reason, a big bunch of you are making this huge leap from "they haven't implemented bolster properly yet" to "they never will." That is unfounded nonsense.

Seriously, some of you have all the patience of a gnat.
Having that kind of patience is mandatory when playing TOR. Don't hate the players for garbage development.

The only thing I can say for sure that is "unfounded" is the EA Q/A department.

Anything else, is merely a reaction to it.

LarryRow's Avatar


LarryRow
04.19.2013 , 09:34 AM | #1265
Quote: Originally Posted by TUXs View Post
Great post/summary/history - I'm especially in agreement with the highlighted yellow section. Expertise has been nothing but a pain in the arse since it was released. Obviously Bioware can simply NOT get it right and I fully agree that it should be removed entirely.
Not you too!
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Arutar's Avatar


Arutar
04.19.2013 , 09:36 AM | #1266
Quote: Originally Posted by Burtlebe View Post
People comparing this to a service are naοve or new to mmo's, after 19 years of mmo's I have learnt to roll with the changes and bugs and have fun otherwise its time to walk away from them.
Well, tbh, I have only about 7 years of previous MMORPG experience (I am curious, which MMOs were you playing back in '94?).

So yes, bugs are to be expected, but not the blind release of a completly untested version of a mechanic which messes which the entire PVP content of a game. This is what many PVPers are rightly upset about.

As said before, we are not talking about a few - to be expected - bugs, which happen only under some circumstances. When 2.0 went live, NOTHING, with the new bolster was working properly at all:

No gear was often better than having gear (now partial empty gear is still often better than full gear) . Old PVP gear was completely crap in PVP (now this is only true for some itema IF you not remove the pvp crystal manually). PVE gear was boosted more than intended (this still is an issue).

Regardless from the fact that at least some of this was known from the PTS, you would not even have needed a PTS to see all this before launch. Just going in a WZ once and toy with your gear for 2 minutes would have shown you that the bolster is messed up.

So, is the sky falling? No.

Things are slowly getting better which each Patch. Maybe in a couple of weeks, everything will be fine and even better than before. Until then, however, I think valid criticism should not be dismissed as "naive" or QQ out of hand.

MystbladeWA's Avatar


MystbladeWA
04.19.2013 , 09:39 AM | #1267
Quote: Originally Posted by islander View Post
Valor has been meaningless since.... 1.2?
+40 valor is meaningless, yes. Maybe it will come back into play with Season 1 of "utterly useless and 12 months late" ranked wz's.
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pqgarvis's Avatar


pqgarvis
04.19.2013 , 10:09 AM | #1268
Quote: Originally Posted by Spincrossover View Post
So in your opinion if I play a game where changes are made in way I feel ruins the gameplay I only have 2 options: Eat it quietly or abandon the game! So express your opinion about the state of the game is never an option for you?
I never said SWTOR was rubbish, what I (and a good number of other players too BTW) stated is that the change they made (reversible BTW) to the game also ruined my experience of the game in the process. Focus on REVERSIBLE changes!

I don't wish to stop playing the game, I wish they fix something they broke! Different story.

Let me just ask you a question: Do you feel PVP is better now?
I perform the same now as I did at 50 (since all players are in the same game, skill stays the same, even with changes to the game) and I did state that constructive criticism (feedback) should be used. PvP is fine, are there bugs that need to be worked through? Of course there is, however none of them are nuclear.

I do empathise with you by the way; I have a one year old daughter that cries until she gets what she wants(since she lacks communication skills), the trick is regulating my daughter's expectations while we lack the full ability to communicate with each other.

Pistols's Avatar


Pistols
04.19.2013 , 10:11 AM | #1269
Quote: Originally Posted by pqgarvis View Post
IPvP is fine, are there bugs that need to be worked through? Of course there is, however none of them are nuclear.
Lol

TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
04.19.2013 , 10:19 AM | #1270
Quote: Originally Posted by LarryRow View Post
Expertise...not Bolster. Bolster works fine 10-54. Expertise is the elephant in the room though. NOTHING they have done has made it better...nothing...it's only gotten worse and more **edit**ed up!
All warfare is based on deception • If his forces are united, separate them • If you are far from the enemy, make him believe you are near • A leader leads by example not by force
My referral code: here What you get: here (1 FREE transfer • 7-day FREE sub • FREE Jumpstart and Preferred Bundles)