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lol bolster

First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Princz's Avatar


Princz
04.18.2013 , 01:19 AM | #1151
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
The second issue we want to address is concerns over the balance between level 55 PvE and PvP gear. We have seen some reports from players around the forums and in this thread that they are seeing players wearing Underworld or Arkanian gear having higher stats under Bolster than people wearing Partisan or Conqueror.

After some investigation, it appears that this is true, but it is not intended. Although we always want to keep the PvP environment competitive even for players not wearing full PvP sets, Partisan and Conqueror should be performing better in Warzones than their PvE counterparts. We will be deploying a fix for this in 2.0.1 which will be coming out on Tuesday.

I know there is still a bit of confusion around the Bolster system, how it affects stats and Expertise and I am working on getting some more information on it. Sometime after 2.0.1 I am going to work with the combat team on getting a “mathy” post explaining a bit about Bolster and how it works which will hopefully work to clear up some confusion. As you can imagine, it is a pretty complex system.

I hope that alleviates some of your concerns with the issue of PvE v PvP gearing and thank you all for your feedback.

-eric

What Eric is saying is that this game is not ready yet to be played byt ppl that only pvp....
This is a PvEr game so pvpers should unsub untill its fixed for me ...to go back to GW and AION in the meantime.

If you are St*pid enough thou to play it, i will be waiting you in WZ with my Arkanian set, my 30%+ stats and atleast 8K hp plus to ROLFSTOMP you
Princz - Sage healer of the Republic
Fantastico - sneaky assasin of the Empire
"idiots are invincible"

Devlonir's Avatar


Devlonir
04.18.2013 , 01:41 AM | #1152
Quote: Originally Posted by Pistols View Post
I don't think anyone disagrees with this.
I do, Bolster is still a generally good idea that has some issues that need to be resolved.

Speaking of, to all those saying "These issues have been reported on PTS and nothing has been done about it!!!1111one!!!111eleven!!!"
You deserve a slap in the face and a reality check.

There have been multiple iterations of Bolster on the PTS. Tweaks and improvements have been made to the entire system with the data that was available (which was a lot less information than they have now). In the last build before Live there were more tweaks and changes to Bolster to touch on issues.

So, then 2.0 went Live in pre-release, with the information available and the bugs fixed and issues resolved that were possible to fix and resolve before Live. Then, within the first week they got a ton of information. Because it is Live, I think you can safely say they got 100 times more information than any week in the PTS. Not to mention that most people on PTS were max levelled immediately anyway, meaning the main issue shown and solved in week 1 (Naked Bolster in sub-55 brackets and WH/EWH gear being worse than greens in those same brackets) actually had very little data on the PTS. But they went Live anyway, why?

Well, to start; to get 100 times more information in a week of pre-release than they would get in a week on the PTS. To actually have real data to work with, and quickly resolve issues. Right now, they solved two major issues within a week time. One with a real fix (Naked Bolster) one with a 'quick fix' because another fix would mean reworking the system entirely. That is a very impressive feat so far, and if they keep fixing PVP issues in that same rate, then by the mid May all these complaints we have now will have come and gone like the winter's snow.

So, do I think people don't have a right to complain about these issues? Not at all. You feel the issue, let it be known. But do I think people have the right to demand Bolster to be removed? No. The idea of Bolster is good "to reduce the difference between new PVP players and fully geared PVP players in their gear efficiency." This difference was about 60-80% efficiency difference between Recruit and fully augmented EWH pre 2.0. I agree people that invest in PVP should have slightly better gear than those who do not. but 60-80% makes endgame PVP about gear only, and not about skill at all. The new system, will balance it more in the 55 bracket.

Furthermore, people that think all problems will be solved if Bolster is removed tomorrow are delusional and, frankly, stupid. In one line you blame Bioware for releasing content they "have not tested well enough" (FYI: you mean, they have not bug fixed well enough, don't blame QA testers for things they have no control over please), while in the next you are calling for them to immediately implement another untested system of level 55 Bolster-less PVP. Something about pot and kettle comes to mind..

So, TL;DR.. Bolster is a good system in it's concept, which still has a lot of issues that need to be resolved. Issues that come to light 100 times better on Live than they would on PTS. If we just keep reporting the issues we have in a serious manner to the developers, through things like bug reports and threads with clear examples, we will all be able to more quickly have a more balanced system than we had pre 2.0.

PS: Posts that basicly say "You are an idiot for making a development decision" as a reply to a yellow post are the most destructive thing you can do. We all begged for months for Developers to come out and be open about decisions and why they were made. Now they are here, they are reminded again why they didn't come out before.
It's okay to disagree, but at least add more than "You are wrong".
"Cows go 'Moo', Dogs go 'Woof', MMO Players go 'The PVP is unbalanced!" - Yahthzee
"I'm starting to get the feeling that BW and their MMO are not the dysfunctional ones." - Rafaman

Lord_Karsk's Avatar


Lord_Karsk
04.18.2013 , 02:03 AM | #1153
This is all so funny

If we dident have this patetic fail expertise stat then we would have no issues from the start.

So simpel to have it take the same amount of time to earn pvp/pve gear with same stats and problem solved.
Of course there will always be that 0.1% of idiots whining about raiders doing better in PvP even thou as i said above
have it take about the same amount of time to earn both gears
.Players will still have a clue what they are doing in
both pve and pvp anyways or they will suck at it.Works awesome in GW2 a PvP game.But of course we know the devs here dont have a clue what they are doing with pvp soeeeeeee........

KhalDrogoe's Avatar


KhalDrogoe
04.18.2013 , 02:23 AM | #1154
I have a solution to the bolster issue!

From what I gathered, their problem comes from trying to cater to PvE'ers in PvP. We didn't have this much stink on the forums about gear/bolster before.

Just create NAKED BOLSTER the most powerful, so that everyone just removes their gear, except weapon to PvP! THUS you have created a truly gearless balance system, and no more GEAR gap for the whiny PvE'ers to complain about so you can ruin the PvP in the game for us.

If you care this much about them to bolster 55 PvP, then you should just take it the step further so NAKED BOLSTER would be the solution. Then that way there won't BE anymore bolster issues/gear issues!

Heck, just make all gear in the game cosmetic, and just have achivements for PvE accomplishments and PvP accomplishments. Even steven allaround!

Iraq-Lobster, Wakwa, The Marshmallow Legacy POT5
Bloobies - JC

Arutar's Avatar


Arutar
04.18.2013 , 02:47 AM | #1155
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
The second issue we want to address is concerns over the balance between level 55 PvE and PvP gear. We have seen some reports from players around the forums and in this thread that they are seeing players wearing Underworld or Arkanian gear having higher stats under Bolster than people wearing Partisan or Conqueror.

After some investigation, it appears that this is true, but it is not intended. Although we always want to keep the PvP environment competitive even for players not wearing full PvP sets, Partisan and Conqueror should be performing better in Warzones than their PvE counterparts. We will be deploying a fix for this in 2.0.1 which will be coming out on Tuesday.
Thanks.

Just for the sake of clarity, please have the developers look also into the issue where players are only using certain Modifications of PVE gear (in particular hilts/barrels) and put it in PVP gear.

Also, a "mathy" answer how bolster works exactly would be really much appreciated.

Arutar's Avatar


Arutar
04.18.2013 , 02:55 AM | #1156
Quote: Originally Posted by Devlonir View Post
Speaking of, to all those saying "These issues have been reported on PTS and nothing has been done about it!!!1111one!!!111eleven!!!"
You deserve a slap in the face and a reality check.

There have been multiple iterations of Bolster on the PTS. Tweaks and improvements have been made to the entire system with the data that was available (which was a lot less information than they have now). In the last build before Live there were more tweaks and changes to Bolster to touch on issues.
Are you serious?

Both the issues of naked bolster and of PVE gear able to outperform PVP gear were known on the PTS in their latest playable build. The issue of naked bolster was explicitly promised to be fixed before live.

What is even worse, even without any PTS this would have been embarrassing. All it took me (and the rest) to just try out a single WZ afer 2.0 to notice thinks were completely ****ed up. We are not talking about some arcane bug which happens every full moon. You just had to remove one piece of gear to see the mess for yourself.

iRedRIng's Avatar


iRedRIng
04.18.2013 , 03:32 AM | #1157
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
The second issue we want to address is concerns over the balance between level 55 PvE and PvP gear. We have seen some reports from players around the forums and in this thread that they are seeing players wearing Underworld or Arkanian gear having higher stats under Bolster than people wearing Partisan or Conqueror.

After some investigation, it appears that this is true, but it is not intended. Although we always want to keep the PvP environment competitive even for players not wearing full PvP sets, Partisan and Conqueror should be performing better in Warzones than their PvE counterparts. We will be deploying a fix for this in 2.0.1 which will be coming out on Tuesday.

I know there is still a bit of confusion around the Bolster system, how it affects stats and Expertise and I am working on getting some more information on it. Sometime after 2.0.1 I am going to work with the combat team on getting a “mathy” post explaining a bit about Bolster and how it works which will hopefully work to clear up some confusion. As you can imagine, it is a pretty complex system.

I hope that alleviates some of your concerns with the issue of PvE v PvP gearing and thank you all for your feedback.

-eric

Make sure you also try to address the issue of pve gear becoming better under bolster by taking out one item modification from the piece.

Devlonir's Avatar


Devlonir
04.18.2013 , 04:06 AM | #1158
Quote: Originally Posted by Arutar View Post
Are you serious?

Both the issues of naked bolster and of PVE gear able to outperform PVP gear were known on the PTS in their latest playable build. The issue of naked bolster was explicitly promised to be fixed before live.

What is even worse, even without any PTS this would have been embarrassing. All it took me (and the rest) to just try out a single WZ afer 2.0 to notice thinks were completely ****ed up. We are not talking about some arcane bug which happens every full moon. You just had to remove one piece of gear to see the mess for yourself.
You do realise the major complaints were: "Naked outperforms my WH/EWH gear" right? This had as much to do with Naked boosting too much still (because of empty slots needing to give stats for low level characters), as well as WH/EWH underperforming stats wise.

The issue on PTS where naked was better than Partisan was solved before 2.0 hit Live.
"Cows go 'Moo', Dogs go 'Woof', MMO Players go 'The PVP is unbalanced!" - Yahthzee
"I'm starting to get the feeling that BW and their MMO are not the dysfunctional ones." - Rafaman

chaosmadness's Avatar


chaosmadness
04.18.2013 , 04:47 AM | #1159
dudes, its time to refresh the topic...no1 gonna read 117 pages..

Arutar's Avatar


Arutar
04.18.2013 , 05:26 AM | #1160
Quote: Originally Posted by Devlonir View Post
You do realise the major complaints were: "Naked outperforms my WH/EWH gear" right? This had as much to do with Naked boosting too much still (because of empty slots needing to give stats for low level characters), as well as WH/EWH underperforming stats wise.
Yes, your point being?

That using your amassed lvl 50 PVP gear when doing PVP lvl 50-54 was complete unforseeable? That the developers had NO way of knowing that players would try to do that instead of taking some lvl 33 green PVE gear instead over their lvl 50 epics (which makes so much more sense, right)?

Bugs do happen and should be expected. But these are not bugs. Its knowingly releasing a obviously completely untestested version of the Bolster which messes with an entire part of the games content, which is simply reckless.

If you are entirely ok with this, well this is your choice.