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Pondering rolling a Sorc


Rugi's Avatar


Rugi
03.28.2013 , 09:40 AM | #1
So the double XP weekend is coming up and I am thinking of powerleveling a Sorcerer during it. My main is a Juggernaut so I'm looking to bring up a ranged toon next. Neither Merc nor Sniper appeals to me, so here I am! I just had a few questions for the community hear. How are Sorc's doing dps wise currently (Pve and pvp on live)? Are they getting any better or worse in 2.0? If Sorc is your main, what do you love most about the class?

And lastly, how is the story? I plan on going LS mostly but will probably pick up some DS points when I have to deal with the nobles on Alderaan. I'm just hoping that the LS Inquisitor story is as satisfying as the LS Warrior one, which I thoroughly enjoyed.

Thanks in advance!

Chemic_al's Avatar


Chemic_al
03.28.2013 , 09:48 AM | #2
if you want a good ranged dps, roll a sniper. Sorc DPS is an underperformer on live, but will be competitive in PvE come 2.0. PVP is weak now, and will remain so.

Rugi's Avatar


Rugi
03.28.2013 , 09:52 AM | #3
Sniper is just so boring though. I like flashy and very little of the Sniper's kit is flashy. Sorcs on the other hand have the "unlimited power!" lightning storm thing going for them.

WaldoA's Avatar


WaldoA
03.28.2013 , 10:23 AM | #4
Currently on live Sorcs can do great damage and roll through PvE very easily. From a PvP perspective they are pretty mobile and CAN be good for the team. Damage always comes easy, though they lack burst so don't expect to be winning many 1v1 unless you have good surroundings. They can be an extremely great class if you put the effort in to play them well, though if you are looking to play laid back, they aren't as good as other classes that way.
Assassin - 53 // Juggernaut - 50 // Vangaurd - 50 // Gaurdian - 51
Operative - 51 \\ Sorcerer - 50 \\ Sniper - 52 \\ Marauder - 46
Powertech - 47 // Assassin - 35 // Shadow - 36 // Sage - 37

SoonerJBD's Avatar


SoonerJBD
03.28.2013 , 09:28 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Rugi View Post
How are Sorc's doing dps wise currently (Pve and pvp on live)? Are they getting any better or worse in 2.0?
They do fine in live. They aren't the best PvE DPS class. Snipers put out more ranged damage. But it isn't difficult to clear any content in the game if you are halfway competent. Similarly, they aren't the easiest class to play in PvP, but they can do quite well in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing. You aren't going to stand toe-to-toe with a melee class, which is the subject of much angst by some of the bads who post in this forum. You have to use kiting tools, damage over time abilities and utility skills as a DPS sorc in PvP. But I do quite qell with both a Sorc and a Sage in PvP.

As for 2.0, sorcs are getting a bit better. The damage on DOTs has been increased. The lightning tree got some improvements. They took away instant-whirlwind (our version of the Sage's force lift, which is a wonderful CC). That is a bummer. Again, if you are looking for the highest DPS output, you need to roll a Sniper. But Sorcs will do fine in both PvE and PvP when 2.0 goes live.

Quote: Originally Posted by Rugi View Post
If Sorc is your main, what do you love most about the class?
As I said, I run both a Sorc and a Sage. The best thing about the class beyond the obvious awesomeness of force lightning is its mobility and how easily you can switch targets. I've got a lvl 50 Sentinel, Jugg and Sniper in addition to my Sage and Sorc. Even a Sniper has a harder time target switching. I just feel like I have a better situational awareness running my Sage and Sorc. You can see the battlefield better and switch targets much more easily than with any melee class or even a Sniper.

Quote: Originally Posted by Rugi View Post
And lastly, how is the story? I plan on going LS mostly but will probably pick up some DS points when I have to deal with the nobles on Alderaan. I'm just hoping that the LS Inquisitor story is as satisfying as the LS Warrior one, which I thoroughly enjoyed.
It's OK, but not nearly as good as the warrior story line. Lots of intrigue and Sith power struggling. It doesn't quite have the same epic feel I got with the Warrior and Knight storylines. I put the inquisitor story ahead of consular but behind agent, warrior and knight.

Kindran's Avatar


Kindran
03.28.2013 , 09:44 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Rugi View Post
How are Sorc's doing dps wise currently (Pve and pvp on live)? Are they getting any better or worse in 2.0? If Sorc is your main, what do you love most about the class?
PVE:

Currently on live the Sorcerer is on the lower end of the dps spectrum. We are about 3rd from last, higher than operative and mercenary.

In 2.0 the dps is better and competitive against other classes for both Lightning and Madness.

PvP:

Currently on live Sorcerers have many problems in PvP. These problems mainly come from the fact that we are too easily countered by warriors/knights, sin/shadow, vanguard/Powertech.

In 2.0 it will be worse. The only "buffs" we are getting are 30% damage reduction while stunned in Madness, and more burst as Lightning. The nerfs, both directly and indirectly, are that more classes get root breaks, Sorcerers lose instant WW, Sorcerers lose 25% armor, and PvP expertise will have a net gain of damage done vs damage reduced. This causes the squishy class to become even squishier.

Overall in PvP Sorcerer's take too much damage, don't do enough damage to compensate our damage intake, and we don't have the needed defensive CDs.

Quote: Originally Posted by Rugi View Post
And lastly, how is the story? I plan on going LS mostly but will probably pick up some DS points when I have to deal with the nobles on Alderaan. I'm just hoping that the LS Inquisitor story is as satisfying as the LS Warrior one, which I thoroughly enjoyed.

Thanks in advance!
I liked the story, but I do not feel that the Inquisitor gained power them self at the end lore wise (we have more or less "borrowed" power instead of real power). The difference between LS and DS choices are small. The biggest let down for the Inquisitor is that we got Ashara's companion quest line when we should have gotten Jaesa's. It seems that Bioware totally loved the Warrior over the Inquisitor as they got a much better storyline.
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Death's demise shall arise when Life's creation nullifies.
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Kindran <Carnage Gaming> (The Shadowlands)

SoonerJBD's Avatar


SoonerJBD
03.28.2013 , 10:06 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Kindran View Post
PVE:

Currently on live the Sorcerer is on the lower end of the dps spectrum. We are about 3rd from last, higher than operative and mercenary.

In 2.0 the dps is better and competitive against other classes for both Lightning and Madness.

PvP:

Currently on live Sorcerers have many problems in PvP. These problems mainly come from the fact that we are too easily countered by warriors/knights, sin/shadow, vanguard/Powertech.

In 2.0 it will be worse. The only "buffs" we are getting are 30% damage reduction while stunned in Madness, and more burst as Lightning. The nerfs, both directly and indirectly, are that more classes get root breaks, Sorcerers lose instant WW, Sorcerers lose 25% armor, and PvP expertise will have a net gain of damage done vs damage reduced. This causes the squishy class to become even squishier.

Overall in PvP Sorcerer's take too much damage, don't do enough damage to compensate our damage intake, and we don't have the needed defensive CDs.
This is what I mean when I talked about the angst from bads. People like this get leapt at by a Sentinel and don't understand that standing there casting while a melee class pummels you isn't going to work. We get heals and force armor instead of defensive cooldowns. We get kiting tools. Learn the class before you talk smack about it.

Kindran's Avatar


Kindran
03.28.2013 , 10:36 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by SoonerJBD View Post
This is what I mean when I talked about the angst from bads. People like this get leapt at by a Sentinel and don't understand that standing there casting while a melee class pummels you isn't going to work. We get heals and force armor instead of defensive cooldowns. We get kiting tools. Learn the class before you talk smack about it.
Nice trolling attempt, but if you would actually understand our class first you would understand our problems. 1v1 is not the problem with Sorcerer's and are defensives seem to be based on 1v1. The problem starts happening when we are placed in fights with multiple people I.E Warzones.

When you have fights where 2dps+ are attacking you, it is very hard to get away with our tools. While trying to escape our damage also drops quite a bit. The biggest counter to a Sorcerer (sans Corruption spec) are roots, especially when we get rooted while using Force speed. Some we can purge (force based roots), but between no diminishing returns on roots and roots not affected by resolve, we have a hard time.

Before you try calling out how bad you think people are, you should stop and think before you type. I do very well in WZs too, but I do feel and understand the limitations placed on this class a lot of times throughout the WZ.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Death's demise shall arise when Life's creation nullifies.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kindran <Carnage Gaming> (The Shadowlands)

SoonerJBD's Avatar


SoonerJBD
03.28.2013 , 11:42 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Kindran View Post
Nice trolling attempt, but if you would actually understand our class first you would understand our problems. 1v1 is not the problem with Sorcerer's and are defensives seem to be based on 1v1. The problem starts happening when we are placed in fights with multiple people I.E Warzones.

When you have fights where 2dps+ are attacking you, it is very hard to get away with our tools. While trying to escape our damage also drops quite a bit. The biggest counter to a Sorcerer (sans Corruption spec) are roots, especially when we get rooted while using Force speed. Some we can purge (force based roots), but between no diminishing returns on roots and roots not affected by resolve, we have a hard time.

Before you try calling out how bad you think people are, you should stop and think before you type. I do very well in WZs too, but I do feel and understand the limitations placed on this class a lot of times throughout the WZ.
OK, well putting aside the borderline illiteracy displayed by this post, I'll just focus on the astoundingly poor content.
1. "When you have fights where 2dps+ are attacking you, it is very hard to get away with our tools"
You really expect not to die even when you are outnumbered? Do you think you should go through every warzone and never have to re-spawn? You have a stun, a mez, a slow, the option of roots in both DPS trees, optional bubble stun, force speed. I mean, how many kiting tools do you expect to get? It sounds like you want an "I win" button. You aren't supposed to win when you are outnumbered.

2. "While trying to escape our damage also drops quite a bit."
As it should be. If you are trying to get away, you aren't doing damage. You are using kiting tools, CC, etc. That's true for literally every class. You really think you should be able to maintain full DPS while trying to escape? Do you have any idea how PvP works? If anything, we do more damage than other classed while trying to escape because our DOTs keep ticking.

3. "The biggest counter to a Sorcerer (sans Corruption spec) are roots, especially when we get rooted while using Force speed."
Every class is susceptible to roots. The only exception I know of is the root protection talent Sins/Shadows can spec into with force speed. You get roots too if you spec for them. Use them accordingly. One of the reasons I love Madness is the 9-second cooldown on Creeping Terror and its associated root.

4. "but between no diminishing returns on roots and roots not affected by resolve, we have a hard time."
Diminishing returns on roots? I don't think you know what "diminishing returns" means.

I understand this class very well. I've been playing since pre-release. My main is a Sage, and my first alt was a Sorc. They have both been in full war hero gear for many months. We're not invincible. We aren't a faceroll OP class. But we aren't as weak as you are claiming, either. PvP with some other classes and you will find out no class is perfect.

Kindran's Avatar


Kindran
03.29.2013 , 12:57 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by SoonerJBD View Post
1. "When you have fights where 2dps+ are attacking you, it is very hard to get away with our tools"
You really expect not to die even when you are outnumbered? Do you think you should go through every warzone and never have to re-spawn? You have a stun, a mez, a slow, the option of roots in both DPS trees, optional bubble stun, force speed. I mean, how many kiting tools do you expect to get? It sounds like you want an "I win" button. You aren't supposed to win when you are outnumbered.

2. "While trying to escape our damage also drops quite a bit."
As it should be. If you are trying to get away, you aren't doing damage. You are using kiting tools, CC, etc. That's true for literally every class. You really think you should be able to maintain full DPS while trying to escape? Do you have any idea how PvP works? If anything, we do more damage than other classed while trying to escape because our DOTs keep ticking.

3. "The biggest counter to a Sorcerer (sans Corruption spec) are roots, especially when we get rooted while using Force speed."
Every class is susceptible to roots. The only exception I know of is the root protection talent Sins/Shadows can spec into with force speed. You get roots too if you spec for them. Use them accordingly. One of the reasons I love Madness is the 9-second cooldown on Creeping Terror and its associated root.

4. "but between no diminishing returns on roots and roots not affected by resolve, we have a hard time."
Diminishing returns on roots? I don't think you know what "diminishing returns" means.

I understand this class very well. I've been playing since pre-release. My main is a Sage, and my first alt was a Sorc. They have both been in full war hero gear for many months. We're not invincible. We aren't a faceroll OP class. But we aren't as weak as you are claiming, either. PvP with some other classes and you will find out no class is perfect.
Dude, I am tired of arguing with you over and over about how well other classes do over us in multiple threads.

1) Again, you don't understand. If you put the survivability rate of other classes vs us with using every defensive at each class' disposal, every other class is greater than Sorcerers. If you don't get it by now, when I talk about Sorcerers' defensive CDs I am talking about kiting and not facetanking.. I am not asking for an I win button like you so claim. I am only asking for equality or compensation (as in glass cannon which is given to Lightning in 2.0)

2) Every class except Operatives and Sorcerers can pop damage reduction CDs to live and still dps(Operatives can completely escape the fight instantly). We do more damage than other classes while escaping because of DoTs? Dude, listen to yourself. DoTs have NO protection to force type purges and they do little damage, 500-600 damage crit with affliction and 400-500 damage crit with creeping terror once every 3 seconds. Other classes can do way more than that while chasing/escaping. I am also including Death Field in this.

3) Madness' root is nice with a 9sec CD, but if you have creeping terror then you only have that one single target root. Every class is susceptible to roots yes, but they do not have major problems with them like Sorcerers. This wouldn't be a problem at all if force speed had its immunity baseline as it should be.

4) You are the one who seems to not understand what diminishing returns mean. Let me enlighten you. If I am rooted, then rooted again, the second root will have its full duration still applied. As this game does not have diminishing returns at all nothing is reduced on consecutive applications. This, along with how many roots are in this game. and resolve not affecting roots, hurts Sorcerers more than any other class.

Please keep in mind that the scenarios I am talking about are team fights where both teams have a guarded healer or two. We are completely fine in 1v1 where each battle can go one way or another. If dps are not targeting a healer a dps Sorcerer is the next one in line because they are easy kills.

I have played and mained my Sorcerer since beta. No class is invincible nor perfect, but in comparison to the classes I mentioned, we are weak. Either buffs need to be applied to the lower tier classes or nerfs need to be placed on the higher tier to make things near equal. I will say this again as I had mentioned it in another thread. Compare Madness to Shadow Priest and Lightning to Elemental Shamans from WoW. The WoW counterparts both have the tools required to do well in their respected fields.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Death's demise shall arise when Life's creation nullifies.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kindran <Carnage Gaming> (The Shadowlands)