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So Darth Traya is...


Selenial's Avatar


Selenial
03.31.2013 , 04:03 PM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by BrianDavion View Post
Darth Traya lied all the time. sure much of her lies where half truths but she very much lied and mislead. it SHOCKS me how many people take what this DARK LORD OF THE SITH says as undisputed fact. Kreia is both a Sith Lord with an adgenda (and all that entails) and a very human (and thus falliable) character. you need to consider two things about everything she says.

1: She could damn well be lieing. or at least not telling the whole truth.
2: she may also well be WRONG.


as for her status if she appers in the MMO. 300 years is a looooong time. I've changed a lot over the past 10 years. I can imagine 300 years might impact me
And you need to consider two things.
An "Entity" is not a human, its a force spirit. She would not have aged beyond what she looked like at the time of her death.

Kreia knew more about what she said than anyone, she had experienced both sides and foresaw so much. She swore at the Trayus core that she was telling nothing but the truth.
Hell, anyone who tells a Paragon of Light side energy that they were once a sith, is quite obviously mostly telling the truth.
We all live or die as Krayt wills, Stryfe. At his word, I would cut out my own heart. Or yours.
Zarys Sorcerer Cathinka Seeliara Sage
Posted the prologue of fanfic Echoes.

obi-wan-kenoby's Avatar


obi-wan-kenoby
04.05.2013 , 08:12 AM | #42
Darth Traya did only have one hand, the entity has both hands. Maybe she is someone else? What about Atris?

Lurtzello's Avatar


Lurtzello
04.05.2013 , 09:09 AM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by obi-wan-kenoby View Post
Darth Traya did only have one hand, the entity has both hands. Maybe she is someone else? What about Atris?
Well, Obi-Wan's Force Spirit isn't cut in half and Vader's not burnt nor is lacking limbs.
Quote: Originally Posted by Selenial View Post
And you need to consider two things.
An "Entity" is not a human, its a force spirit. She would not have aged beyond what she looked like at the time of her death.

Kreia knew more about what she said than anyone, she had experienced both sides and foresaw so much. She swore at the Trayus core that she was telling nothing but the truth.
Hell, anyone who tells a Paragon of Light side energy that they were once a sith, is quite obviously mostly telling the truth.
As regard as lying, she could simply be doing it in SWTOR: perhaps she lied to the Warrior to get released, perhaps she had "plans" for the Emperor, trying to manipulate him (if you argue "then she wasn't having success, since Vitiate's intentions are not at all like the ones of the Kreia we know", she may simply have failed at manipulating him, maybe even because of the interference of Baras: not a reason not to keep trying to manipulate the Emperor, since if she didn't even try, Vitiate would have carried out his own will anyway, while if she managed to gain control over him, she may have used him to do her bidding, looking for ways to wipe out the Force while preserving life).
Also, while a Force Ghost doesn't age, it doesn't mean it cannot change opinions with time: maybe she was influenced by the Emperor himself, instead of the contrary, and her own ideals changed. It wouldn't be the first Force Ghost to have a change of mind.

Benfea's Avatar


Benfea
04.07.2013 , 07:11 PM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by TheBBP View Post
Thanks a ton for the respect you have shown for those of us who have not finished that story by using those spoiler tags in this thread.

That would have been cool to work out on my own when I got to it.
Spoiler


Sorry. Couldn't resist.
"It's great to be known, but it's even better to be known as strange."
-Takeshi Kaga

Cigerfei's Avatar


Cigerfei
07.26.2013 , 10:35 PM | #45
Actually the more I think about it, Kreia/Traya hated how everything was manipulated by the Force. What she possibly saw in the Emperor was someone who's actually risen above and could manipulate the force freely.

Considering that she willingly sacrificied so much of herself for the Exile oh so long ago just to prove points and have incredible powers of foretelling, I wouldn't be surprised that she allowed herself to be captured/manipulated by other Sith like the Emperor and Darth Baras. She clearly knows how to play the long game in view and would undergo all kinds of torment to finally get to her goal.

Even so, I still have doubts that the Entity is Traya and would hope it could be cleared up eventually

QwibQwib's Avatar


QwibQwib
07.27.2013 , 10:44 AM | #46
The reason Kreia despised the Force was not that it manipulated people. What she despised was that it manipulated people into playing a pointless game of Light and Dark that never ended, no matter how many billions of sentients were sacrificed. She loved the exile because she was the only one truly immune to the Force's will, and could (if her plan worked) finally put an end to the game.

Of course, this was quite possibly an elaborate ruse in order to mold the Exile into the perfect Jedi (at least from Kreia's perspective), so that she could go into the Unknown Regions to follow Revan and defeat the reformed Sith Empire.

Regardless of what her plans were, she still despised the Force, and if she knew what kind of abomination the Emperor truly was, she would hate him with her entire being, since the Emperor represents the aspect of the Force she hates the most: the uncaring manipulator who would sacrifice every living being in the galaxy (or even universe) for its own ends. She could have changed in 300 years, if her essence had managed to survive her death, but there's no way she did that much of a 180. Also, I honestly can't believe that she survived her death at Malachor.

Generally speaking, the only people who become Force ghosts are Jedi Masters who are at peace with the universe, or Dark Jedi / Sith who have unfinished business. Kreia, I felt, was neither of those. Her sole raison d'etre was the Exile, and only through her death would the Exile's training be complete. On top of that, she struck me as the type who would rather die than willingly become One With the Force.

As I see it, the Dark Side Entity has to be someone other than Kreia, or else her entire character would have been butchered.
"Amor omnibus idem" - "Love is the same for all"

Selenial's Avatar


Selenial
07.27.2013 , 11:07 AM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by QwibQwib View Post
As I see it, the Dark Side Entity has to be someone other than Kreia, or else her entire character would have been butchered.
Indeed. I couldn't agree more.
We all live or die as Krayt wills, Stryfe. At his word, I would cut out my own heart. Or yours.
Zarys Sorcerer Cathinka Seeliara Sage
Posted the prologue of fanfic Echoes.

Pietrastor's Avatar


Pietrastor
07.28.2013 , 08:10 PM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by Cigerfei View Post
Actually the more I think about it, Kreia/Traya hated how everything was manipulated by the Force. What she possibly saw in the Emperor was someone who's actually risen above and could manipulate the force freely.
For Keria, rising above the Force is the ability to quit it. The Emperor didn't do it and never will. He's as much addicted to it Nihilus. The only difference is that he didn't lose his mind.

The Entity's character is just incompatible with Kreia and the sooner they erase any connection the better.

Slowpokeking's Avatar


Slowpokeking
08.01.2013 , 01:55 PM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by QwibQwib View Post

As I see it, the Dark Side Entity has to be someone other than Kreia, or else her entire character would have been butchered.
No, it fit her character well, she would be stupid to say "I hate your emperor" before the Wrath and a Dark Council member.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
08.01.2013 , 02:06 PM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
No, it fit her character well, she would be stupid to say "I hate your emperor" before the Wrath and a Dark Council member.
She didn't have to say anything at all...