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The 2.0 feedback thread(s).


TherealDUKE's Avatar


TherealDUKE
03.27.2013 , 06:52 PM | #11
The one thing that I disagree with most sorcs about is not doing damage while we move. I set up my next burst while I move with affliction and shock. Tab dots while you are moving to the next place isn't fluff damage IMO, it is the set up for autocrit TB and LB, it just so happens to do damage and force healers to burn cleanse. Also if I have CL proc up I try to use that on the fly. Granted we dont have burst on the move like other classes. but this isn't another class.

That being said. Madness used to be my favorite spec to just infuriate people. But I don't think that is the case anymore. Now it's pretty much useless. We need inta whirlwind and either a great debuff to reduce targets resistance to dots or a decent force crit bonus high in the tree so self heals are actually meaningful.

There's my 2 cents.

Chemic_al's Avatar


Chemic_al
03.28.2013 , 06:20 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by veyl View Post
Hey man, your pessimism is how a lot of Sorcs feel about their class for PVP. No need to apologize, we've all seen the lack of response from the development team to this class and are mostly unhappy with that. In PVP: There are a few who are okay//happy with the class, but those sorcs have been with their RWZ (Or regular WZ pre 1.3) pals probably since release and are protected // play very well with their team. You don't see many "happy" PVE sorcs in the DPS department either though but at least that portion will change in 2.0

Having feedback out there for the development team to at least read is better then not saying anything and the class not going anywhere. If you look at the changes to lightning, a lot of them were brought up in the CLASS feedback thread. Lightning strike / CL / Thundering Blast all hit a lot harder now and I do believe it was because of the feedback thread that this happened. Unfortunately, madness went the other way and the defensive CD's abilities that were most talked about in that feedback thread forcing most sorcs to play a hybrid were changed drastically // not improved at all.

I'd rather see constructive communication about the class continue though.
Don't get me wrong, PVE dps looks competitive, from what I and guildie have been parsing, which is great. They did buff damage which is definitely what we asked for.

However, they got so much wrong or been ignored, it just feels like we've been hit with the nerf bat yet again.

Firstly, the defensive cooldown, if you can call self-cc that, is nothing along the lines I think anyone wanted. I think shroud should be baseline for sorcs anyway. Why didn't we get the teleport? I think that would have been perfect, rather than for assassins that have stealth already?

Madness - No instant whirlwind. When knights/warrios, powertech/vanguards and agents/smugglers have instant aoe mez, and we can't even have a single target instant mez its just feels like a bad joke. The fact dots have more chance to be resisted, means creeping terror isn't as reliable as a kiting tool. If they can make ravage/master strike uninteruptable, then force lightning in madness really ought to have it. The reason knights/warriors and powertechs/vanguards are good dps, is because their basic rotations have nothing to interrupt, it's all instant which keeps them mobile. If we're supposed to kite then we need stuff to kite with.

I was asking for parasitism to be meaningful - it's still a joke.

I still find it odd, that tanksins force lightning hits harder than a madness sorcs, and they get self heal to boot. And the last if not least insult is they didn't give the "execute" talent to madness sorcs, but gave it to our madness sin cousins. Why? It is just SO fricken annoying.

Lightning tree - Kiting tools in the turret spec? Like lolwut? They saw people play the hybrid, or madness because you can do damage and kite. Now you can't kite in any spec, because you either can't spec into the tools or if you're kiting in lightning you're not doing damage. It's just plain stupid.

Healing - not done much with this, but without the cc tools from the hybrid, and bubble stun gone, we are still very firmly second tier to operative/scoundrel healers in wzs, who also got a whole raft of amazing buffs.

So whilst PVE is fine, the message from the devs really seems to be "don't PVP with a sorc."

But these points have been brought up on PTS forum and here, and been ignored, which frankly is no surprise, because we're not lolsmashtards or a class that the devs actually play.

Edit: yes one last thing, there was plenty of QQ from the melee about bubble stun, and probably even more about rage/focus. If gutting the bubble stun yet keeping smashtards still totally OP is their idea of balance, then I can't think what message the devs are giving us sorcs and sages other than a big %&*$ you.

ZeppFreeloader's Avatar


ZeppFreeloader
03.28.2013 , 02:56 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by veyl View Post
If you have a problem leveling to 55 as a sorc in 2.0 you're doing something dreadfully wrong. Your output is much, much higher in the damage spectrum and your Dark Heal is much more potent heal + self heal / bubble... There should be 0 reason to not take quests like you would your Mara.

The changes to PVE are very good and far from making your game play "even worse". ( I did what you were doing with your mara on my sorc and that was before the self heal... really not sure how you play/level but there's 0 reason to be worried for 2.0 leveling.)
Sorc is far more problematic for levels 15-35 than other toons. It may partly be due to my first toon being a sorc, and the nice buff you get from your second toon having the AT buff plus your previous toons buff.

Jarlaxb's Avatar


Jarlaxb
03.28.2013 , 04:06 PM | #14
PvE I think things are improving, but for pvp -
Lets look at a little history :

We have been nerfed directly and indirectly repeatedly sense the game launched.

All traited dammage increases were reduced
Force regen was nerfed for healer
Electrocute nerfed to 10m
Overload nerfed to directional cone
Dark Infusion cast time reduction nerf
Stat weights all changed to add a +20% DPS boost over healing
Dropping adrenals and just making relics have that much power/ surge all the time, but read above. - healing nerf
Changed expertice to cancel out the dammage boost on a player instead of players reducing another players dammage all the time, another healing nerf.
healing is already nerfed 40% by trauma
--- new nerfs----
Instant whirlwind gone "because of assasins"
Electric bindings moved to the almost top of the lightning tree
Bubble Stunn nerf " agree with this",but I think now it only AE blinds if you click it off if a player breaks it it dont do anything - why even bother now? not to sure about that last part.
Melee got more roots and snares on top of leaps and pulls
-25% armor
- 10% increase to traited static barrier @ 5% per point from 10% per point

What I would LOVE to see is somthing like this :

Force Barrier has been removed and sorcerers can now phase walk.

Static Barrier now scales with Willpower and Power and while static barrier is active the sorcerer is immune to Force Charge "leaps" and pulls." at least make melee beat it off me first not just leap from 30m away from the start it has a hard CD debuff and now all the new snares and roots this is needed."

Lightning Barrage can now be triggered by Lightning Strike critical hits as well as Affliction critical hits.
Electric Bindings has been moved and is now a T2 ability in the lightning tree.
Eletric bindings now also causes your Overload to knock back targets in 360 degrees.
The cooldown on Polarity Shift has been reduced to 1 minuite.
Polarity shift now also grants the ability to cast while moving for 10 seconds
Force Lightning is now considered a "periodic effect" as well as a channeled ability
replace the 2% defence increase per point in madness "sorcerer only" with
Pain mastery - All perodic effects are now hasened by 50% 25% per point allowing dammage over time effects to do their total dammage in 1/2 the duration, - near the top of the tree, and yes it effects force lightning.
Put back instant whirlwind

This would be a good start

Chemic_al's Avatar


Chemic_al
03.29.2013 , 03:32 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Jarlaxb View Post
Instant whirlwind gone "because of assasins"
Yeah this has to be the biggest BS argument ever. I mean it's not like they have to make the abilities identical and still leave sorcs with instant whirlwind, because unlike their sin cousins they don't have a whole raft of fricken defensive cds to use.

In fact if it worried them so much about assassins, they could have changed whirlwind to instant for sorc, and sorcs could then talent it to affect more people, while keeping the sin one as a cast reduce.

It doesn't surprise me no dev ever comes in here and comments on these asinine changes because they know they'd get ripped to shreds.

veyl's Avatar


veyl
03.29.2013 , 09:55 AM | #16
We need a representative for the class that works on the development team to be a liason between players // devs. Every major MMO I've played has had this and it makes no sense why there isn't one here. (Unless their devlopment team is that short staffed that they can't appoint anyone to a position of this nature.)

I just hope that this constructive feedback is at least read.

Fireswraith's Avatar


Fireswraith
03.29.2013 , 11:19 PM | #17
Had a thought the other day that I can't remember seeing anyone suggest anywhere, or maybe just forgot but whatever. But give Madness some instant dot crits; Parasitism could be "50 chance per point for periodic damage that consumes 1 Deathmark to automatically crit", or Deathmark could be "causes your next 10 periodic damage to automatically crit, or change any of the other worthless abilities in Madness to some auto crits.

Kindran's Avatar


Kindran
03.29.2013 , 11:42 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Fireswraith View Post
Had a thought the other day that I can't remember seeing anyone suggest anywhere, or maybe just forgot but whatever. But give Madness some instant dot crits; Parasitism could be "50 chance per point for periodic damage that consumes 1 Deathmark to automatically crit", or Deathmark could be "causes your next 10 periodic damage to automatically crit, or change any of the other worthless abilities in Madness to some auto crits.
The madness system is fine the way it works. It only needs a few tweaks like Deathmark not counting other peoples DoTs.

increase DoT damage A LOT and inversly decrease Force Lightning damage. Basically make it so Force Lightning is not 40%-50% of Madness' total dps, but total dps remains unchanged. Also add in DoT protection with this change.

The difference between the force use between Madness and Lightning is HUGE. Lightning is always near 90% max force while Madness has a net loss, especially when tab dotting. Make Force Effusion in T2 Lightning or something.

Make Madness Sorcerers take less damage (Kinda like shadow form from WoW) to make it more inline with its playstyle, which is attrition.

Make Force Speed break/immunity impairing effects baseline.

Give back instant WW and revert the armor nerf. (SCREW YOU ASSASSINS!!!!).

I will say that if they implemented all of these changes Madness would probably be OP. So pick a few and fix our problems please! ~Thanks.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Death's demise shall arise when Life's creation nullifies.
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Kindran <Carnage Gaming> (The Shadowlands)

dscount's Avatar


dscount
03.31.2013 , 10:02 PM | #19
I have to agree with all my fellow Sage/Sorc Class players. PLEASE communicate with us in some fashion.

BIOWARE DEV TEAM - Please READ this post and then READ it again.

We AGREED with Stun Bubble needing to go, but didn't agree to a NERF and Self Stun Bubble in return.

I'm personally starting to get really ticked off at the inability for BW to Balance out the Sage/Sorc class in PVP. We have SPOON fed this information/feedback in almost every forum, PTS, Class, General, etc. BUT NOBODY is responding! WHY? Why doesn't any of the DEV's play Sage/Sorc? Why can't we get even a glimmer of hope in some communication to address our major issues? I was looking forward to Phase Walk as being a life saver on my Sorc Healer and found out the other AC got it instead in exchange for the nerf's they got. Heck I'd really like to know why Smashmonkeys still got Auto-Crit after we lost Crit across the board. Do your metrics take into account the instant PVP "FOCUSED" targets we are in this class? (Doesn't matter if we are DPS or HEALS - Easy KILL w/Light Armor)

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=617236 similiar post on the same topic.
  • Why is the new "Barrier" going to provide value over loss of Instant CC and Stun Bubble?
  • Stun Bubble Removal (all agree it had to go), BUT we expected an equal valued group utility. (Barrier is not)
  • Any change in our class to address the Auto-Crit of other classes and resolve TTK issues on 2.0?
  • Some excellent forum posts by many on CC/Stun/Roots and our decreased survivability.
  • Glass Cannon conversation. If we are the fastest to DIE, then why are we not TOP DPS hands down?

We NEED:
  • Give back our ARMOR please - WHY didn't DEV Team understand nerf to entire class = BAD IDEA.
  • More Mobility (Cast on the move)
  • Increased TTK (Keep alive)
  • BURST DPS (Finisher)
  • Less interupted Casts (If stationary required)
  • More interupt breaking tools (Make the cool down crazy low)
  • More CC/Stun/Root breaking tools like other classes have (Should be on PAR-1 with amount a smash monkey can drop in the same GCD)
  • Force Speed beefed up can address MOST of these (Lower GCD, Immunity, breaks like Self stun bubble).
  • PURGE spec in Healing Tree should be able to clear ALL Roots/Snares (Healers JOB, give us right tools).
Sage/Sorc Gate 2013 Combat DEV LOL Responses:
"...you must play defensively and make them pay for trying to kill you."
"...require a higher skill level than many players are comfortable with."

Ghost_Spectre's Avatar


Ghost_Spectre
04.01.2013 , 01:14 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by dscount View Post
BIOWARE DEV TEAM - Please READ this post and then READ it again.
Great information and I agree totally with what you and others have stated. However, truth be known, the Devs will not reply. Of all the ACs, these Devs have done nothing to improve the QoL for the Sage/Sorcerer. As stated previously, none of them play this class. They simply do not care. It was made apparent when they went live with 1.2 and more so now with the coming of 2.0. Their willful silence speaks volumes as proof positive they will not do anything to bring these two classes inline as DPS classes with the others.

They willfully lied to us about giving us something to offset the loss of applying the bubble stun to other classes to improve viability and team support. They flat out lied. These developers cannot be trusted to do anything that will benefit these classes we have chosen to play. The only thing the did do was improve healing so either Sage/Sorcerer can be stronger in this area. DPS still languishes behind the other DPS classes. They nerfed our armor and other defensive capabilities (reduced absorption of our Force Armor/Static Barrier) among others. In my years of game developing I have never seen something as bad as I have seen from these specific developers. They are biased towards these two ACs plain and simple. Their actions or lack thereof in not addressing our concerns in any manner or doing anything to bring the DPS trees to the forefront as the glass cannons they are with the other classes and their nerfing of defensive capabilities is proof positive.
Caedus Rage Juggernaut Aloysius Madness Sorc Demonicus Healing Sorceress
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