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The 2.0 feedback thread(s).


veyl's Avatar


veyl
03.25.2013 , 10:31 PM | #1
The following information was the result of weeks of testing on the PTS for Sorcs (mainly in PVP however, I did complete SaV 8m raids from both a healing and DPS perspective). From a pvE perspective, the class is in a good place for the transition into a new expansion. Healing and DPS is quite "Balanced"... My main concern though is Madness spec being left behind. Quite frankly, it's boring and nothing significantly changes. (Not to mention the fact that Lightning parsed much higher)

Here's a link to my suggestion post about Sorc's needing a Blink and having it replace Force Speed which is too easily locked down and absolutely pathetic compared to the Operative Roll. This is something that I believe needs to happen to bring sorcs up to a more "balanced" level.

Copy/paste from my sorc concerns/feedbackthread on pts for 2.0:

Madness: Which should be renamed SADNESS spec.

-Madness is still terrible and cannot be considered "The" dps pvp spec anymore.
--It's too easy for any melee to get to you and kill you as Creeping terror only gives 2 seconds of room and there are now a few more slows that a DPS sorc can't remove with purge. With no bubble blind//Knockback root, you will be dead with any melee on you.
---DoT damage is too low in the pvp environment because of how slow the ticks are and the "healing" you get from dots // deathfield is still way too low in an environment where 5k incoming single attacks is the -norm- across all platforms.
----This spec still lacks an "execute" range that all of the other healer classes have in their far right trees. (Merc pyro has a sub 30% and Lethality for the oeprative has a sub 30%).
-----Deathfield basically wasn't touched and although it should resemble "smash" in damage after the talents in the higher tiers give it, it falls very short and only hits for 4400 at most. (though smash shouldn't be hitting for what it does... if anything smash should be lowered to what DF does.)
------The loss of instant whirlwind is also a joke. Sorc's need this to give themselves space from the melee and now if they are madness spec they will just be sitting ducks.
--- Why is the 2% less damage reduction talent still there? No one uses this. Ever.

Lightning - The PVP and PVE spec.
Lightning had a lot of great changes made to it to boost it in DPS for PVE and gave more potential burst to the Sorc in PVP. The problem with PVP is that if a lightning sorc is moving, they're not doing crap for damage. There's a lot of set up involved where you basically have to free yourself up to free cast, get a CL proc, and set up a Thundering Blast -- CL back to back combo... Which is amazing damage (Probably too much, but it's so easily countered that you'll only see it on good teams from good sorcs who know how to hide). Melee (and arguably snipers who don't have to worry about being stunned // CC'd) can just open up and do their thing. When I'm playing my marauder, I never feel like I'm not doing damage nor am I ever running away in a fight like I HAVE to with my sorc.
----Another problem with lightning is that it's the only tree where the major defensive abilities are. The root on CL + slow, a knockback freeze and bubble blind is why this tree is going to be the norm for anyone DPS in PVP. The reason you see so many sorcs as a hybrid on live is because of these abilities (minus the CL slow which isn't there) and the fact that the blind on Bubble gives little to no resolve... In this build, healers and Madness sorcs can't get all of the defensive abilities they need to stay alive against the ridiculous hard hitting melee.
-- Also does not have an "execute range" ability.

Healing_
I only got to mess around with this a little bit but the feeling that I did get is this:
If I didn't have guard, I was easily destroyed. I do really love the changes that came with the healing tree though and the only thing I wish the Sorc class had was a faster cast Dark Infusion. We still have the longest hard cast heal but I guess this is where the trade off for innervate is.

Personal note: I also have an Operative Healer and I would still choose that over this healing class any time of the week to PVP with. I just feel that they are in a better place as PVP healers and always have been. (Mostly because they can cast on the move and their "big heal" is much faster... You also don't have to kill yourself to get energy back which is a huge plus).

The "OP" bubble.
My biggest gripe with this thing is that it's on such a long CD. You get to be saved once every 3 minutes and that's if you have a competent team or the DPS that are laying into you get bored of waiting for you to come out and play. You can use this actively as a second trinket or "throw off" the dps by stopping the channel early, but any RWZ team will force the Sorc to use their bubble right away and then on CD make sure to force them to use it again. Once that bubble is out of the way, they are open season because of the lack of Defensive abilities (Unless they are lightning spec which can give a little breathing room at times).

warstory's Avatar


warstory
03.26.2013 , 05:51 AM | #2
Lots of great feedback from those threads

Lightning its a very simple issue hiding behind a pillar hoping no one targets you is not fun gameplay. Everyone has a interrupt button thus everyone has the potentially to completely shutdown all your attacks. I have done it on live and done it on PTS. Major oversight IMO, pushback on casted abilities also contributes to the problem.

When allowed to free cast we do avg burst in pvp, penalties don't justify the output.
"Surely you know I could kill you just as easily with my lightsaber as I could with the force "

veyl's Avatar


veyl
03.26.2013 , 07:58 PM | #3
Yeah, I was hoping more people would post their thoughts on the class and save their 2.0 feedback for this forum. I feel the lack of response to any of the sorc issues from a developer has turned away a good portion of people who were fighting for balance in pvp. Every class was acknowledged, except for ours, and the last rounds of pvp I did were nothing but smashers // snipers just rolling through people. I will admit, I had some good rounds... but it was only when the other team -didn't- have more then 1 smasher and the opposing team forgot how to interrupt.

I'm glad I enjoy pve because I'd be done with the game completely (with sorcs anyway) if it weren't for that aspect of it.

Larry_Dallas's Avatar


Larry_Dallas
03.27.2013 , 01:11 AM | #4
Good points. One minor quibble about lightning spec.

Seemed like on the PTS, as often as not, Thundering Blast was proc'ing lightning storm. That TB/iCL combo was coming a lot, even without actively looking to set it up.

Now, TB->reck->barrage->iCL combo is incredibly rare, what with the huge reduction in crit rate and low duration of the barrage proc. But in my experience, lightning now provides an awful lot of semi-controllable burst. And, even under fire, can take a pretty substantial chunk even out of multiple attackers before it drops. It's got just enough AoE defenses to make focusers think twice and perhaps look for another target.

Doesn't really change your broader point, though. Need to be pretty godly with positioning to succeed with lightning. But it IS more possible than it was before the first change to backlash. Honestly....I could see rated teams rolling with one (one, not more). Lotta burst. Lotta "lemme buy myself X more seconds" as well.

Madness...it's not even the nerf to whirlwind or the lack of buffs that will cause it problems. It's all the snares and rootbreaks. Specifically, the passive snares on rage's leaps and the dual-saber-throw skill that will be the death of it. Might be able to kill snipers better than anything but a stealther. You know, if you've got, like, 35 seconds to burn.

Chemic_al's Avatar


Chemic_al
03.27.2013 , 06:00 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by veyl View Post
Yeah, I was hoping more people would post their thoughts on the class and save their 2.0 feedback for this forum.
To what end? An expansion going live in a couple of weeks, pretty much means they aren't going to change much from PTS as it is now. The feedback has been given already and they ignored it.

Honestly tired of fighting uphills battles or repeating the same points over and over, so yeah I've got my marauder and powertech for pvp now, and levelling a sniper. Leave sorc in PVE which is obviously where the devs want them.

Sorry for the pessimism, but that's how I feel now.

TwitchWINs's Avatar


TwitchWINs
03.27.2013 , 09:46 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by veyl View Post
Yeah, I was hoping more people would post their thoughts on the class and save their 2.0 feedback for this forum. I feel the lack of response to any of the sorc issues from a developer has turned away a good portion of people who were fighting for balance in pvp. Every class was acknowledged, except for ours, and the last rounds of pvp I did were nothing but smashers // snipers just rolling through people. I will admit, I had some good rounds... but it was only when the other team -didn't- have more then 1 smasher and the opposing team forgot how to interrupt.

I'm glad I enjoy pve because I'd be done with the game completely (with sorcs anyway) if it weren't for that aspect of it.
veyl operative from working as intended?
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veyl's Avatar


veyl
03.27.2013 , 10:03 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by TwitchWINs View Post
veyl operative from working as intended?
Nope, I'm on Shadowlands and although I was early access and Veyl was my first character name, I lost it in the first server merge.

I do have an operative and a scoundrel healer now though.

veyl's Avatar


veyl
03.27.2013 , 10:14 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Chemic_al View Post
To what end? An expansion going live in a couple of weeks, pretty much means they aren't going to change much from PTS as it is now. The feedback has been given already and they ignored it.

Honestly tired of fighting uphills battles or repeating the same points over and over, so yeah I've got my marauder and powertech for pvp now, and levelling a sniper. Leave sorc in PVE which is obviously where the devs want them.

Sorry for the pessimism, but that's how I feel now.
Hey man, your pessimism is how a lot of Sorcs feel about their class for PVP. No need to apologize, we've all seen the lack of response from the development team to this class and are mostly unhappy with that. In PVP: There are a few who are okay//happy with the class, but those sorcs have been with their RWZ (Or regular WZ pre 1.3) pals probably since release and are protected // play very well with their team. You don't see many "happy" PVE sorcs in the DPS department either though but at least that portion will change in 2.0

Having feedback out there for the development team to at least read is better then not saying anything and the class not going anywhere. If you look at the changes to lightning, a lot of them were brought up in the CLASS feedback thread. Lightning strike / CL / Thundering Blast all hit a lot harder now and I do believe it was because of the feedback thread that this happened. Unfortunately, madness went the other way and the defensive CD's abilities that were most talked about in that feedback thread forcing most sorcs to play a hybrid were changed drastically // not improved at all.

I'd rather see constructive communication about the class continue though.

ZeppFreeloader's Avatar


ZeppFreeloader
03.27.2013 , 11:25 AM | #9
I would argue that it is not only an issue with PVP, which I care nothing about seeing as I don't PVP, but also an issue with PVE. I can take on missions two levels above me, generally, with a mara, but with a sorcerer I always had to take missions at or below my level. Frankly, the changes that have been made may make this situation even worse. I don't want to play a team-required toon. I want the choice.

veyl's Avatar


veyl
03.27.2013 , 05:12 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by ZeppFreeloader View Post
I would argue that it is not only an issue with PVP, which I care nothing about seeing as I don't PVP, but also an issue with PVE. I can take on missions two levels above me, generally, with a mara, but with a sorcerer I always had to take missions at or below my level. Frankly, the changes that have been made may make this situation even worse. I don't want to play a team-required toon. I want the choice.
If you have a problem leveling to 55 as a sorc in 2.0 you're doing something dreadfully wrong. Your output is much, much higher in the damage spectrum and your Dark Heal is much more potent heal + self heal / bubble... There should be 0 reason to not take quests like you would your Mara.

The changes to PVE are very good and far from making your game play "even worse". ( I did what you were doing with your mara on my sorc and that was before the self heal... really not sure how you play/level but there's 0 reason to be worried for 2.0 leveling.)