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Your 2.0 build


Hizoka's Avatar


Hizoka
03.28.2013 , 03:01 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Aaramis View Post
In a *raid*, yes, agreed. Well, for the most part. As you pointed, for some stuff it doesn't matter. The healers may AoE heal bomb anyways, or the AoEs may simply be avoidable, but in some situations yes, that 30% reduction is very, very valuable.
For me at least, it comes down to what I'm planning on doing. For soloing, or flashpoints, or even SM ops, it's not *necessary*, and other abilities may be tempting. But for NiM ops, or even HM ops, I'd be inclined to take Defensive Roll, yeah.

Not sure what the Ryat planned to do in PvE, which is why I mentioned it might be an option, or other choices such as Insight.
insight is just nearly worthless as a DPS talent though... it ONLY effects dots for watchman and the tree already gives +18% to dot crit chance. so even if you are running 30% raid buffed (with the new crit coeffecients) that makes your dots have a 48% chance to crit.. the DPS increase will be less then 1% for 2 talent points its just not effective use of the talent budget.

gunte's Avatar


gunte
03.28.2013 , 04:10 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Hizoka View Post
insight is just nearly worthless as a DPS talent though... it ONLY effects dots for watchman and the tree already gives +18% to dot crit chance. so even if you are running 30% raid buffed (with the new crit coeffecients) that makes your dots have a 48% chance to crit.. the DPS increase will be less then 1% for 2 talent points its just not effective use of the talent budget.
Stop feeding this misinformation please, once again: 6% crit chance is EQUALLY valuable at a base of 0% crit chance, 10 %, 40%, 67 %, 94%, or ANY other. (below 94). So getting 18% crit chance from the tree is COMPLETELY irrelevant to insights value, OK?!?
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Hizoka's Avatar


Hizoka
03.28.2013 , 06:42 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by gunte View Post
Stop feeding this misinformation please, once again: 6% crit chance is EQUALLY valuable at a base of 0% crit chance, 10 %, 40%, 67 %, 94%, or ANY other. (below 94). So getting 18% crit chance from the tree is COMPLETELY irrelevant to insights value, OK?!?
no its not... 6% crit when you have no crit is a far better increase then when you have 45%... anyone with a solid idea of math knows that. the more crit you have the less of a DPS increase it becomes.

Crit is a terminating stat. the more you have the more you need to get and equal DPS increase. I would explain it in more detail you are have already proven to not be able to understand it.

gunte's Avatar


gunte
03.28.2013 , 12:16 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Hizoka View Post
no its not... 6% crit when you have no crit is a far better increase then when you have 45%... anyone with a solid idea of math knows that. the more crit you have the less of a DPS increase it becomes.

Crit is a terminating stat. the more you have the more you need to get and equal DPS increase. I would explain it in more detail you are have already proven to not be able to understand it.
No the DPS increase is equal regardless of base. The percentage increase is of course not as the increase is equal but the base changes.
For example if i start at 0 and just add 1, the increase by going from 1 to 2 is the same as going from 3 to 4 but the percentage increase is of course much higher going from 1 to 2.
Aredun - Titans - The Red Eclipse EU
Glory is of no use to the dead.

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Sprgmr's Avatar


Sprgmr
03.28.2013 , 02:36 PM | #15
Here's what I'm thinking. I figure since I have the extra points then a small increase to Force Fade would be nice. But I also reason that IF I'm using Saber Ward, a little bonus healing can only help. Unfortunately I can't reasonably get Swift Slash, but putting Swift Slash in the first tier of combat could end up helping us, since we won't have to gear for that 3% accuracy, which we can then put towards more damage.

The slight loss in Damage from Dual Wield Mastery has been mathed out to be about 0.5% of damage per attack I think (Someone correct/confirm this?). But I'm psyched for how much free critical % we'll have (granted it's only 3% more).

slowantics's Avatar


slowantics
04.05.2013 , 08:46 AM | #16
im thinking of going for this
http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-...0000000&ver=20
swift slash talent might be nice but not sure if i should sack a point from focused sash
im just thinking that crit chance would be nice since itll become part of regular rotation. the points in focus seem like a waste. not sure where to put them really
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Ilayas's Avatar


Ilayas
04.05.2013 , 12:52 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Sprgmr View Post
Here's what I'm thinking. I figure since I have the extra points then a small increase to Force Fade would be nice. But I also reason that IF I'm using Saber Ward, a little bonus healing can only help. Unfortunately I can't reasonably get Swift Slash, but putting Swift Slash in the first tier of combat could end up helping us, since we won't have to gear for that 3% accuracy, which we can then put towards more damage.

The slight loss in Damage from Dual Wield Mastery has been mathed out to be about 0.5% of damage per attack I think (Someone correct/confirm this?). But I'm psyched for how much free critical % we'll have (granted it's only 3% more).
I was not considering picking up Force Fade but your post got me thinking. Now that I look at it I feel the healing generated from talented saber ward is some what negligible. Were as a talented force camo can be used as a sprint, something very useful to me as a mele, and has a much shorter cool-down then saber ward so can be used more often. Before the force fade nerf back in the day I put that speed boost to good use. I think I'll look forward to doing so again.

Here's the build I am thinking of using:
http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-...0000000&ver=20

Though I am loathed to give up swift slash I think my healers will thank me for finally picking up defensive roll.
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oofalong's Avatar


oofalong
04.05.2013 , 02:12 PM | #18
I believe 36/7/3 will be the best build for Watchman. You will still have the choice between Force Fade & Watchguard.

As other have pointed out the changes to the critical rating and primary stat equations means it is comparatively harder to get crit chance in 2.0. Thus, Insight's fixed crit % is very valuable.

I feel the benefits of crit are often misunderstood for Watchman Sentinel. Searing Saber provides a free 30% Surge for burns, which means we want burns crit'ing as often as possible. Don't forget about the health regen from crits as well; this is how we justify not investing in Defensive Roll. Plus, you will want to keep Saber Ward up now. Instead of mitigating damage we heal ourselves.

Assuming the talent trees from PTS are correct, the base crit % without counting Strength or Crit Rating would be:
  • 5% Base
  • 1% Companion
  • 5% Imperial Agent/Smuggler
  • 6% Insight
  • 18% 6 Stacks of Juyo Form

For a total of 35%; plus Strength should add another ~11%. Thus we will be sitting at 46% for burns with 0 crit rating. I think the debate then becomes how much, if any, crit rating we want.

Regarding Dual Wield Mastery I did the math on it, and I concluded it offers marginal improvement - see the link in my signature line. I welcome other's perspectives on this though.
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Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
You are correct Oofalong.

oofalong's Avatar


oofalong
04.05.2013 , 02:47 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Hizoka View Post
no its not... 6% crit when you have no crit is a far better increase then when you have 45%... anyone with a solid idea of math knows that. the more crit you have the less of a DPS increase it becomes.

Crit is a terminating stat. the more you have the more you need to get and equal DPS increase. I would explain it in more detail you are have already proven to not be able to understand it.
Hizoka - can you clarify what you mean by a terminating stat?

By my calculations it seems that theoretically every incremental 1% in crit yields the same magnitude of extra damage. See this spreadsheet, where I modeled the standard damage from a Cauterize tick including the Searing Saber boost.

To be clear crit rating and strength's contributions to crit % are exponential, which means they suffer from diminishing marginal returns. But this does not seem to be the point you are trying to make.

Edit: the link should work now - sorry.
Oofalong | Oofawrong | Incendiari | Uriyah | Litlah & More
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Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
You are correct Oofalong.

Bugattiboy's Avatar


Bugattiboy
04.05.2013 , 05:57 PM | #20
Access to your spreadsheet is restricted in some way. I got "Access Denied".
I didn't think anything could top the stupidity of no new group content in Fallen Empire...

...then Level Sync happened.