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Disappointed about so-called "New In Game Barber-Shop"

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Disappointed about so-called "New In Game Barber-Shop"
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CelCawdro's Avatar


CelCawdro
03.22.2013 , 10:26 AM | #721
Quote: Originally Posted by Emencie View Post
I'm glad BW is finally putting this in the game. It's nice to know they are listening to what we want, and while I would hate to see it not come out. After reading this thread I cant help but feel it would serve you people right if they just said "**** it, they don't want it" And pulled the whole thing.

Get used to it all cosmetics will be in the Cartel store.

Also as a side note most (if not every) games that have full 100% character recreation sells that in their item shop, or is a paid service. WoW's barbershop is not the same thing as full character recreation, Sex, race, Everything.
Which is precisely the issue.

As I stated before, BioWare needs to clarify as this is getting pretty inane.

To reiterate: I think someone at BioWare really needs to step in here and clarify:

A) That this feature is a complete character recustomization, not a "barber shop."

B) If there is a proper "barber shop" coming down the pipeline.

A lot of MMOs provide both services: character recustomizations (altering species, body type, skin colours, etc. - core features) are usually paid for, while the minor changes (such as hair style/colour, scarring, minor features) are made available free of monetary charge and use the in-game currency.

There is a lot of confusion here since BioWare hasn't distinguished between the two. That distinction is needed.

And: Methinks they just do not realize the importance of minor alterations vs. major ones and thought they'd simply take out two birds with one stone, so to speak. Unfortunately, tying those minor ones in with the major creates a lot of problems, particularly when you are asking people to shell out real cash to add a scar or to cut their hair.

Species change? Sure, charge cash. Skin colour/body type? Again, charge away. But when these changes are something that should be "in-universe" and are plausible within the confines of this universe, we should be able to make those changes using the currency of that universe.

Andryah's Avatar


Andryah
03.22.2013 , 10:28 AM | #722
Quote: Originally Posted by DaRoamer View Post
Changing your appearance is not a core function of an MMO, it's fluff. TERA charges money for it. Guild Wars 2 charges money for it. Aion charges money for it.

You are given coins every month, it doesn't matter what you THINK they are for. They are FREE coins. If you don't want to spend your free coins then buy the appearance change with credits.

Really your arguments are not well thought out.
/Agree
MMOs mimic real life in some ways. Take challenges for example.... you can either use intellect and overcome a challenge or not. In other words, you can make lemonade from lemons, or you can just suck on the lemon. Up to you.

Jacen_Starsolo's Avatar


Jacen_Starsolo
03.22.2013 , 10:31 AM | #723
Quote: Originally Posted by DaRoamer View Post
Changing your appearance is not a core function of an MMO, it's fluff. TERA charges money for it. Guild Wars 2 charges money for it. Aion charges money for it.

You are given coins every month, it doesn't matter what you THINK they are for. They are FREE coins. If you don't want to spend your free coins then buy the appearance change with credits.

Really your arguments are not well thought out.
You keep mentioning GW2 but GW2 you can also earn Gems in-game that is used to do this. Does TOR have an in-game way to earn coins? If so, then tell us how then you can use GW2 as an example.

astrobearx's Avatar


astrobearx
03.22.2013 , 10:34 AM | #724
Quote: Originally Posted by Jacen_Starsolo View Post
You keep mentioning GW2 but GW2 you can also earn Gems in-game that is used to do this. Does TOR have an in-game way to earn coins? If so, then tell us how then you can use GW2 as an example.
not to white knight, buuuut

the barbershop item might be on the GTN

TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
03.22.2013 , 10:35 AM | #725
Quote: Originally Posted by DaRoamer View Post
Changing your appearance is not a core function of an MMO, it's fluff.
To you. This is your opinion, not a fact. I'd counter argue that to an RPer, the ability to change looks is most certainly a CORE function of their play style. What you consider 'fluff', others consider content.
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WarbNull's Avatar


WarbNull
03.22.2013 , 10:36 AM | #726
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
I wanted to pop in and address some of your concerns about our barbershop and its use of Cartel Coins and not credits. There are a couple of design implications that go into these decisions I wanted to highlight in the hopes that it makes our decision in this regard a bit clearer.
  • We very consciously design these systems around the fact that subscribers get monthly Cartel Coin grants. Pricing, etc. has these monthly grants in mind to ensure that our subscribers have access to these systems.
  • We want to set the expectation that cosmetic systems like these are where you are going to see us use the Cartel Market. It is our continued philosophy that we will not implement a form of pay to win so cosmetic systems and other non-game impacting features are our best opportunities to make additions to the Cartel Market.
As we continue to release more information about our barbershop please continue to give us your feedback.

-eric
As a subscriber, I have yet to use any of my Monthly Cartel Coins that I am granted. Nothing that is in the Cartel Market appeals to me yet, to spend these Coins on them. Maybe if the prices were cheaper. As a subscriber I would have to wait two months to get enough Coins to buy just one thing that actually looks cool. And I would still have to purchase a few extra coins to get it. That is if I just rely on my Subscription Allotment of Coins. One item every two months just does not seem worth it to me as a subscriber. I also do not go for those Cartel Packs as I will not purchase anything without knowing exactly what I am getting. Especially with a chance to get something that I may already have gotten or do not need or want. Something that I would have to try and sell In-Game just to compensate for my lose of that Extra Fee.

I personally chose to stay a subscriber so that I did not have to Pay each time I wanted to do something in the game or to use what used to be considered a basic feature in a game. I wanted access to these things just by paying my Monthly Fee.
Sadly though you all seem to think that "Species" and "The Look of a Character" is something that is not a Basic Feature and should be purchased at an Extra Cost.

As for the Look of the Character. I can understand purchasing things like Tattoos or Jewelry and even a really Crazy Haircut. But I do not consider that being done at an Extra cost of Real Money or some Allotment of Cartel Coins. It should be something In-Game just like the Skill ReSpec. Something that uses In-Game Credits. There should be a Vendor or even a Shop somewhere in the game. In fact it should be placed in a few places in the game. Maybe even where you would have to go out of your way to travel to certain planets for certain styles. That would be a lot more like real content than just purchasing, with Real Money or an Allotment off the Cartel Market as an Extra Fee. It should be done with In-Game Credits as a Basic Feature

As for Species. I can understand you all wanting to charge extra for some Aspects of the game but definitely not Species. Subscribers should not have to use the Cartel Market in order to make a certain Species of character. I was expecting the Cathar to be part of the upcoming Expansion. Nothing more nothing less. Like it usually is with most MMO's. Now I hear that we are going to have to Purchase it at an extra. I hope that is wrong. I was looking forward to making a new Cathar Character but as a Subscriber if I have to pay Extra for it then I guess I will not be making one. Heck that actually turns me off from playing the game.


You know we all knew that it would cost more to play on a F2P model if you wanted to do everything. That was just common practice. Which is why many of us decided to stay on a Subscription. But seeing how you all are making common things that are normally part of a Subscription only accessible on the F2P Market only makes things worse. Purchasing a new Expansion yet you have to pay extra on top of that for the new Species, and you have to pay extra through the Cartel Market every time you decide you want to change the physical look of your character. That is just depressing and boggles the mind when trying to see what you all are thinking. You are basically putting yourselves out there as a company that wants to get as much money from your customers as possible with the less possible content as possible, without caring about what they think. The F2P Models already increases the cost of playing a game, now you want to take away things from the game that are considered basic and common. To lessen the Content of Expansions.

You know I normally do not Complain or Rant about things often. Basically do to knowing that most things are creative design on the companies part and about profit of business. But there are times that I just have to say something. This is one of those times. I really disagree with your choices here. I disagree here on your choices just as much as having a Kill Cam in BF. Yet not as much as much as you all choosing to make the Space Feature a Rail Shooter, but it is very close.

I really hope you all think about changing these things. Of coarse based on your track record so I guess I will continue to be disappointed. After all we have been complaining about the Space Feature since it was first presented. So expecting you all to change things is like a lost cause. Some companies just Depress more than they Impress. To me BioWare is starting to be one of those Companies.

God I am sad now. I was going to start up the game and play a bit. Now I guess I'll just do something else as I do not feel like playing it. They really know how to put people off when releasing new info.
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Emencie's Avatar


Emencie
03.22.2013 , 10:38 AM | #727
Quote: Originally Posted by CelCawdro View Post
Which is precisely the issue.

As I stated before, BioWare needs to clarify as this is getting pretty inane.

To reiterate: I think someone at BioWare really needs to step in here and clarify:

A) That this feature is a complete character recustomization, not a "barber shop."

B) If there is a proper "barber shop" coming down the pipeline.

A lot of MMOs provide both services: character recustomizations (altering species, body type, skin colours, etc. - core features) are usually paid for, while the minor changes (such as hair style/colour, scarring, minor features) are made available free of monetary charge and use the in-game currency.

There is a lot of confusion here since BioWare hasn't distinguished between the two. That distinction is needed.

And: Methinks they just do not realize the importance of minor alterations vs. major ones and thought they'd simply take out two birds with one stone, so to speak. Unfortunately, tying those minor ones in with the major creates a lot of problems, particularly when you are asking people to shell out real cash to add a scar or to cut their hair.

Species change? Sure, charge cash. Skin colour/body type? Again, charge away. But when these changes are something that should be "in-universe" and are plausible within the confines of this universe, we should be able to make those changes using the currency of that universe.
And Im happy to announce that well be introducing several new features along the way, like a new customization feature, which will allow you to change your character's hair style, eye color, body type, or even species (including the upcoming Cathar!) using Cartel Coins. Look for it in early summer.

They didnt call it Barbershop we did. The answer to your questions are right there.

A. It is a complete recustomization of character The only thing left to question there is can you change Sex/Class (I highly doubt class)

B. No. There was no word on a just change your hairstyle option at all. No BW poster said anything about changing just hair... or a scar or a "Proper Barbershop" And really... does it matter? You can change everything about your character from the smallest to the largest changes 1 item does both.

And has there been anything that you cannot sell from the Cartel market to others for credits? If you don't want to spend real money you can just buy it off the GTN. You understand that with the majority of players being free to play they have to make money someway right? Get it through your heads everything cosmetic will be sold in the CM. Non cosmetic upgrades will not. EricMusco outright said this.

Lent_San's Avatar


Lent_San
03.22.2013 , 10:40 AM | #728
Quote: Originally Posted by Urael View Post
The tell that this was coming was when they had the temerity to declair that everything in the CM Store was "content". But, anything for a buck, right?
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DaRoamer's Avatar


DaRoamer
03.22.2013 , 10:42 AM | #729
Quote: Originally Posted by Jacen_Starsolo View Post
You keep mentioning GW2 but GW2 you can also earn Gems in-game that is used to do this. Does TOR have an in-game way to earn coins? If so, then tell us how then you can use GW2 as an example.
Yes, in 2.0 you will get coins for achievements.

Secondly, where do think the gems come from that you buy with gold in GW2? Other people buy gems with real money and put them on the trader in exchange for gold, and although the trade is not a direct "you buy my gems for 100 gold" exchange that is basically what is happening. This is exactly the same as people buying an item off the cartel market and selling it for credits on the GTN.

CelCawdro's Avatar


CelCawdro
03.22.2013 , 10:42 AM | #730
Quote: Originally Posted by Emencie View Post
And Im happy to announce that well be introducing several new features along the way, like a new customization feature, which will allow you to change your character's hair style, eye color, body type, or even species (including the upcoming Cathar!) using Cartel Coins. Look for it in early summer.

They didnt call it Barbershop we did. The answer to your questions are right there.

A. It is a complete recustomization of character The only thing left to question there is can you change Sex/Class (I highly doubt class)

B. No. There was no word on a just change your hairstyle option at all. No BW poster said anything about changing just hair... or a scar or a "Proper Barbershop" And really... does it matter? You can change everything about your character from the smallest to the largest changes 1 item does both.

And has there been anything that you cannot sell from the Cartel market to others for credits? If you don't want to spend real money you can just buy it off the GTN. You understand that with the majority of players being free to play they have to make money someway right? Get it through your heads everything cosmetic will be sold in the CM. Non cosmetic upgrades will not. EricMusco outright said this.
Hence clarification asking for. As stated above, things are being misconstrued and misrepresented. But the misunderstands will only grow until clarification is provided.