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Disappointed about so-called "New In Game Barber-Shop"

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Disappointed about so-called "New In Game Barber-Shop"
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Levity's Avatar


Levity
03.28.2013 , 01:25 PM | #1121
Do you honestly think they will keep investing their time and money into a game that gives out exactly what they put in? That's not how business works. The moment they stop making a percentage on top of their money, or foresee a time when they wont make anything at all is the day the servers shut down. there are some developer/producers that break this mold. (I believe NCsoft let COH stay up for years though it was just about breaking even.) But this is far from the norm.[/QUOTE]

That's correct, but you can never assume about the finances of a business. LOTRO is making content on a lot less revenue( three expansions since they went F2P). So to say that they are only able to make content because of the CM is a silly assumption. It has always been my opinion that this game was a success and it would of continued to be a success even when the subscriber numbers dropped to 500-700k. Which is still a crazy amount of revenue.

EA is the one who pushed SWTOR to come out 4 months before they should of which made them drop their entire engine they specifically made for the game, a bunch of content they were in production of(including a whole other ops) and a bunch of other things. I guarantee EA pushed the CM just because they are greedy not due to any signs of this game failing. And I wonder if a lot of the team in BW disagreed with this route and were put away for it. People back the CM for saving the game when they have no solid facts about if it truly was needed to save it in the first place. I will continue to have my opinion that everything placed in the CM takes away from the growth of the game just because it;s the easy way. Instead of actually developing of sort of content that is included (IE lore, ingame questlines etc) they just make it unlockable for money and call it a day. It makes money, but it dampens game growth which is sad. And the fact that they have all this revenue and a relatively small expansion to show for it means they aren't putting a big chunk into development.

That's all my assumptions and possibly don't hold any truth as well. But continuously blasting people over it that they are wrong and the CM is a godsend could just be as wrong as the speil everyone else puts out.

PunisherAS's Avatar


PunisherAS
03.28.2013 , 01:29 PM | #1122
This is complete..


Garbage...


Screw you EA.



Welcome to the typical gamers of this generation,
"LETZ BUYZ A RECOLORZ SO COOL!"

The gamers today will keep buying this crap, and the devs will keep releasing this crap.
Games today, look at Call of Duty, no matter how much the game was exactly as the previous people still spend 60$ on an expansion every year.

Lets look at the Madden Franchise. Back in the day 2k Sports was competing in the NFL game franchise made HUGE numbers over Madden. Madden was 50$ as ESPN Football was 20$. ESPN Football had better simulation and better graphics and WAY better gameplay. After two years, EA noticed this loss and decided to buy out the NFL Franchise making it impossible for any other gamers to find a Football game they like. NOW, lets look at the history of Madden ever since this update. CHEAP PIECE OF CRAP, every year... Not one damned game is good, they take out features and add them in and call them NEW. Guess what? Since this is the only NFL Football game, if you want to get your NFL fix you HAVE to purchase this game, NO MATTER WHAT? Guess what that also means? They can keep releasing this crappy quality piece of crap, and PEOPLE WILL STILL BUY IT! These 14 year old gamers will just buy anything that sits in front of them, we can't stop companies DUE TO THESE GAMERS.

No matter what we do, Bioware/EA are going to try and usher these people who spend more money and completely throw all the others in the dirt.

What ever happened to game devs where expansions were free, content was free, and things were actually added into the game? Good bye Old Gen Gamers, lets usher in the new that will spend all their moneyz on digital crappy content forcing a dev to basically focus on these new gamers and let their games become a ****** piece of crap.

What ever happened to the Old School Gamers?
Thats what made dev's actually work towards improving a game.

Now gamers comes in, spend ridiculous amounts of money on stupid content, and it pretty much forces companies to go this method, because most companies such as EA only care about the revenue.
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Emencie's Avatar


Emencie
03.28.2013 , 01:33 PM | #1123
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar
(emphasis added by me)

I'm stunned that you are an apologist of this practice.

I posit that it is possible to put a variety of interesting and useful things in the Cartel Market, that will generate the same revenue of the Cartel Pack RNG-loop-drop inanity. It requires intelligence, it requires creativity, it requires forethought, it requires surveying fans, it requires abilities found in good game designers.
Im not saying it's right or that this is how it should be done. but I do understand that this is how it is done and this is not only in the video game industry. this is what entertainment business is. You next lines sums it up perfectly.

Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar
On the flipside, it is cheap, easy and lazy to toss another Cartel Pack on the market with more rare loot.
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar
I'm not lobbying for the Cartel Market to shut down or to stop making money. I'm lobbying for the corporate-suit-mentality to take a hike and have the team be forced to come up with worthwhile alternatives.

My pleas on this subject will never be heeded by EA. They're making money hand-over-fist with the cheap, easy, no-effort solution. Why should they work harder? But I'm still going to bring it up anyway.

I'm disappointed to run into someone whose standards are such that they not only defend this, but claim it's the only way the game was saved from oblivion.
Only way to make money? No definitely not. Fastest easiest way to make money? Oh yea! And when you are dealing with the juggernaut EA sometimes that is the saving grace of a game. They make fast easy money games constantly, and people that have followed their actions for years know they are not above running a good game into the ground because it isn't generating enough revenue.

I'm happy they are at least being upfront with us and letting us know exactly what is going on. All cosmetics will be in the CM. Everything else will be in game. Awesome! We are paying for the game with our vanity. And for things that don't matter to the game.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
03.28.2013 , 01:53 PM | #1124
Quote: Originally Posted by Emencie View Post
...

Only way to make money? No definitely not. Fastest easiest way to make money? Oh yea! And when you are dealing with the juggernaut EA sometimes that is the saving grace of a game. They make fast easy money games constantly, and people that have followed their actions for years know they are not above running a good game into the ground because it isn't generating enough revenue.

...
I do understand your viewpoint.

Let me also say that my biggest fear is the money-grubbers doing something such as vetoing the VA budget for continued class quests because it "doesn't have a good enough return" and instead add easy money Cartel Packs.

Time will tell.

Themanthatisi's Avatar


Themanthatisi
03.28.2013 , 01:53 PM | #1125
Quote: Originally Posted by PunisherAS View Post
This is complete..


Garbage...


Screw you EA.



Welcome to the typical gamers of this generation,
"LETZ BUYZ A RECOLORZ SO COOL!"

The gamers today will keep buying this crap, and the devs will keep releasing this crap.
Games today, look at Call of Duty, no matter how much the game was exactly as the previous people still spend 60$ on an expansion every year.

Lets look at the Madden Franchise. Back in the day 2k Sports was competing in the NFL game franchise made HUGE numbers over Madden. Madden was 50$ as ESPN Football was 20$. ESPN Football had better simulation and better graphics and WAY better gameplay. After two years, EA noticed this loss and decided to buy out the NFL Franchise making it impossible for any other gamers to find a Football game they like. NOW, lets look at the history of Madden ever since this update. CHEAP PIECE OF CRAP, every year... Not one damned game is good, they take out features and add them in and call them NEW. Guess what? Since this is the only NFL Football game, if you want to get your NFL fix you HAVE to purchase this game, NO MATTER WHAT? Guess what that also means? They can keep releasing this crappy quality piece of crap, and PEOPLE WILL STILL BUY IT! These 14 year old gamers will just buy anything that sits in front of them, we can't stop companies DUE TO THESE GAMERS.

What ever happened to game devs where expansions were free, content was free, and things were actually added into the game? Good bye Old Gen Gamers, lets usher in the new that will spend all their moneyz on digital crappy content forcing a dev to basically focus on these new gamers and let their games become a ****** piece of crap.

What ever happened to the Old School Gamers?
Thats what made dev's actually work towards improving a game.

Now gamers comes in, spend ridiculous amounts of money on stupid content, and it pretty much forces companies to go this method, because most companies such as EA only care about the revenue.
Times have changed and the gaming industry is huge compared to when i was younger. I have in past posts defended the idea that profit is NOT evil, and all business needs profit.

The real problem is EA's business practice (push out content fast and unfinished).. What developer company, game or franchise have they (EA) not ruined?

They have no idea what customer service or a quality product is... That is where EA is bad!

The CM is nice to an extent... I like some things in it, do not like others... like selling +41 crystals. Items that improve stats should never be in the CM, that should be EARNED stuff through game play.

I love this game, even if it was rushed... but it will be the last EA mmo I will ever play, because I know how much better it could be if EA cared about QUALITY. I am not even sure I will buy anymore EA single player games, unless its used for $10, many of their unfinished titles are barely worth more. if EA built cars, it would arrive missing parts, that's a FACT!

I remember back when small development companies would wow us, companies long gone, like Microprose.

times have changed and the "corporation" era is here for good until we are all bled dry of our money... Well, if the government does not take it first.

the poster is so correct about Madden football... EA will not get anymore of my money once I am done with TOR, lucky for them, its Star Wars and BW was involved (KOTOR 1 and 2 creators many of us love), but do not think for one second EA, that if you do another SW game, that I would even think about buying it. The day EA ever goes out of business, I hope I am alive to see it, so I can celebrate!

CosmicKat's Avatar


CosmicKat
03.28.2013 , 02:46 PM | #1126
Quote: Originally Posted by Emencie View Post
Im not saying it's right or that this is how it should be done. but I do understand that this is how it is done and this is not only in the video game industry. this is what entertainment business is. You next lines sums it up perfectly.



Only way to make money? No definitely not. Fastest easiest way to make money? Oh yea! And when you are dealing with the juggernaut EA sometimes that is the saving grace of a game. They make fast easy money games constantly, and people that have followed their actions for years know they are not above running a good game into the ground because it isn't generating enough revenue.

I'm happy they are at least being upfront with us and letting us know exactly what is going on. All cosmetics will be in the CM. Everything else will be in game. Awesome! We are paying for the game with our vanity. And for things that don't matter to the game.
The CM is all about growth, not profit. The stock market cares about growth, profit is secondary.

The CM likely resulted in a substantial surge in revenue, which translates to growth on the balance sheet. Whether or not TOR was or wasn't profitable before the CM or even after the CM doesn't matter a whole lot in the short term, the balance sheet will show the revenue is growing.

The growth will die off as the novelty wears off and the game ages. Then we'll be left with a game that hasn't changed substantially from the game that originally tanked.

Emencie's Avatar


Emencie
03.28.2013 , 02:51 PM | #1127
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
I do understand your viewpoint.

Let me also say that my biggest fear is the money-grubbers doing something such as vetoing the VA budget for continued class quests because it "doesn't have a good enough return" and instead add easy money Cartel Packs.

Time will tell.
I cant disagree with anything you said here. As someone who understands the industry intimately I can say though, the developers, mods, and implementers are not the ones making those choices but are the ones we talk to here. in general we could stand to be a little nicer to them I say.

Quote: Originally Posted by Themanthatisi
the poster is so correct about Madden football... EA will not get anymore of my money once I am done with TOR, lucky for them, its Star Wars and BW was involved (KOTOR 1 and 2 creators many of us love), but do not think for one second EA, that if you do another SW game, that I would even think about buying it. The day EA ever goes out of business, I hope I am alive to see it, so I can celebrate!
That will be a hard one if you plan to play many games. EA was the second largest (monetarily) game producing company up until Activision had their fluke with WoW. Even considering the perfect storm of money that Activision got because of WoW they are still only barely holding onto that position over EA. Not to mention EA has been for years, and looks to be the highest rated publisher from metacritic for more years. When it comes down to it if you buy a game most likely one of the major publishers (Nintendo, Activision/Blizzard, Microsoft, Electronic Arts, Capcom, Sony, Sega, or Konami) had a hand in it even if all they did was fork over money. And of those EA is at the top or extremely near the top of the pile.

But you are right, there was a time where games were kids things and there industry was full of firms who's goal was to make the best game. But somewhere video games because the #1 profitable form of entertainment. And you know what happens when people see dollar signs. and while we the players know what kind of crock EA gets away with its hard to do anything about it because they buy out our beloved series like TOR and make the sequel.

WaldoA's Avatar


WaldoA
03.31.2013 , 07:02 AM | #1128
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
I wanted to pop in and address some of your concerns about our barbershop and its use of Cartel Coins and not credits. There are a couple of design implications that go into these decisions I wanted to highlight in the hopes that it makes our decision in this regard a bit clearer.
  • We very consciously design these systems around the fact that subscribers get monthly Cartel Coin grants. Pricing, etc. has these monthly grants in mind to ensure that our subscribers have access to these systems.
  • We want to set the expectation that cosmetic systems like these are where you are going to see us use the Cartel Market. It is our continued philosophy that we will not implement a form of pay to win so cosmetic systems and other non-game impacting features are our best opportunities to make additions to the Cartel Market.
As we continue to release more information about our barbershop please continue to give us your feedback.

-eric
Subscribers get what, 550 coins/month? the armour sets cost about 1200 coins, that's 3 months just to get an armour set?
I appreciate you need to make money and as much as I hate micro-transactions, I agree they are a good way for people to pay extra for little things that make them more happy.
Though, the likes of Runescape, they have an option to fully customize your character for free. gender, skin tone, hair style, hair colour, clothes style, clothes colour etc.
It really should be a basic Feature in the game. People enjoy change. I myself get bore of looking at the same thing all the time, which Is why I spend a fortune on different armour skins to change it up all the time.
Though it's beginning to feel like you really are just trying to bleed everyone dry of their money irl.
Sure these were my choices but; pay for the game, pay for subscription (2 accounts because you wont transfer my chars) cartel coins to buy items I like, pay for phone support when something inevitably screws me over, pay for expansion (which isn't much of an expansion for PvP players. Though I'm looking forward to it) and then I'm expected to pay for a character appearance change and maybe something as simple as eye colour change.

Bleh..

Kissakias's Avatar


Kissakias
03.31.2013 , 08:53 AM | #1129
Quote: Originally Posted by Alec_Fortescue View Post
Well how expensive can character customization be? I don't expect anything beyond 100 cartel coins to be honest. And you're getting like 550 monthly. :l

I would love it to be available for in-game credits as well, though. Especially if it will come with new haircuts.
im expecting the cathar race costs 720+ cc its a hunch
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DarthZak's Avatar


DarthZak
03.31.2013 , 09:04 AM | #1130
Quote: Originally Posted by Kissakias View Post
im expecting the cathar race costs 720+ cc its a hunch
Im expecting 1000+ since the something as simple as a speeder and full outfit are also 1000+
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