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Let tanks tank!


Kneemo's Avatar


Kneemo
12.21.2011 , 07:00 AM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by Mortal_Sword View Post
This is an artificial normality established by the play experiences of other MMOs. In game like WoW, until endgame this is exactly how every group was supposed to work. The tank holds aggro on everything, DPS hits his target, healer heals tank, loot drops and we go home.

Turns out that style of play is boring for players AND developers. What you see at the higher endgame content of many of these games is more complex fights, such as fights where aggro is dropped, where there is a large amount of AOE damage, or any number of other "oddball" factors.

You would be far better served learning to be a more dynamic healer and player from the get go. You should be cultivating skills to handle situations that are not the traditional norm. You should be prepared to heal your DPS in an AOE encounter, or prepared to heal the offtank when the MT dies or the encounter drops his aggro.

Encounter design is moving away from that cookie cutter norm, because after fifteen years of MMOs, everyone is pretty tired of it. Expect the unexpected, stay on your toes.

By all means, keep people in check. The culprit may be a newb, may not really understand their role or character, may as some mentioned above be confused as to who is the tank, etc. Discuss issues calmly and without insults and accusation and you will cultivate good group experiences, and maybe even a few new friendships.

People are far more willing to wipe earlier in the game than later, so develop your skills early!
This Is an interesting point. Are people raging here because they're use to the "old" formula you speak of?

Kesitah's Avatar


Kesitah
12.21.2011 , 07:06 AM | #42
As to what I have seen so far the old formula is still valid. Though it is more the formula in WoW:TBC than in current WoW (meaning: With CC needed!) But my favorite guys, the ever-force-jumping DPS-Jedi-Knights can really screw things up for for a consular tank (especially if there are two of them ;-) ). Often I just select a mob to mark it for CC when a Jedi knight jumps at the mob.

DarthWalt's Avatar


DarthWalt
12.21.2011 , 07:17 AM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by tharbison View Post
I've only been in a few FP groups so far, and it probably doesn't matter much at low levels, but what's up with groups scattering in a room each taking different mobs?! What ever happened to helping the tank! As a healer it will drive you crazy. Especially when people are on opposite sides of the room and get out of range of heals (why didn't you heal me?!).

Work as a unit people! Stand united! Your healers will thank you!
Most of it has to do with this is not WoW. And mobs dont act like WoW mobs. Tanking in this game is a bit more then oh just run into a pile and everything will queue up the tank and we do the normal WoW thing.

I have seen many a timewere the AI will swap off to the heal with no aggro pulled the bottom line is your tank need to be ingageing the hardest mob while the rest of the team cleans up the trash then you roll the boss. If you dont one of your healers or DPS is going to get rolled by adds.

So far this my exp with running different world heroics as well as BT HS Athiss and Mando.

And your right it might matter and be different in end game but so far its been as discribed above.

We really need to get off this is just WoW idea cause its really not.

JediBosco's Avatar


JediBosco
12.21.2011 , 07:23 AM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by Kneemo View Post
i'm an assassin dps.

say there's a group that has, say, 2 strong level mobs and 2 normal mobs. i will typically kill off the 2 normal mobs first even if that's not the one the tank is attacking.

i do this for a couple reasons:

1.
i noticed a kind of lack of multi target attacks for tanks at my level of groups (lvl 22), unless they just decide not to use them around me. i also don't have any aoe attacks except the one that pushes all the enemies. but a tank got mad at me for using it so i quit using it unless i'm pushing enemies into a trap area. but my point is, those mobs have to die faster than "one at a time." trash should not end up being an endurance fight like a boss fight.

2.
normal level mobs are underestimated in large numbers. killing them off quickly reduces damage the tank takes a lot. so, once they're aggro'd to the tank, all it takes usually is one Maul and a Thrash to kill one off. and i can usually handle a strong level mob without help from the healer, especially since i can seethe after the fight.

there are other situations where i'd attack other targets but those are too "in the moment" for me to remember. and obviously i attack any elite leveled mobs that the tank is attacking.

i don't consider this "tanking" or not allowing the tank to tank. especially when this method works wonderfully in my groups. the idea that dps should just attack what the tank is attacking is retarded and very limiting to any kind of strategy. tanks complain that they have all the responsibility and yet they won't give anybody any of it even if they wanted it.
This is definitely inline with my observations at this point, I think part of the problem is that the game is designed to make you feel like your the hero of the world in solo play when you are running around against the odds taking on 5 mobs at a time by yourself, so people do that for a couple hours get to a heroic or flashpoint and think they can continue with that same mentality instead of slowing down the pace and filling a role.

Its early, things will improve as players start policing themselves.

Mortal_Sword's Avatar


Mortal_Sword
12.21.2011 , 07:26 AM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by Kneemo View Post
This Is an interesting point. Are people raging here because they're use to the "old" formula you speak of?
In my opinion, yes.
Ammanas <Onward>
Jedi Shadow - Mind Trick

Mortal_Sword's Avatar


Mortal_Sword
12.21.2011 , 07:26 AM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthWalt View Post
Most of it has to do with this is not WoW. And mobs dont act like WoW mobs. Tanking in this game is a bit more then oh just run into a pile and everything will queue up the tank and we do the normal WoW thing.

I have seen many a timewere the AI will swap off to the heal with no aggro pulled the bottom line is your tank need to be ingageing the hardest mob while the rest of the team cleans up the trash then you roll the boss. If you dont one of your healers or DPS is going to get rolled by adds.

So far this my exp with running different world heroics as well as BT HS Athiss and Mando.

And your right it might matter and be different in end game but so far its been as discribed above.

We really need to get off this is just WoW idea cause its really not.
Very much this.

Thanks for the support.
Ammanas <Onward>
Jedi Shadow - Mind Trick

Efir's Avatar


Efir
12.21.2011 , 07:28 AM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by Kneemo View Post
i will agree 100% to that, there is no excuse to leap in unprepared.
It always makes me smile when i get someone force leaping on me. A few bursts of flame and a bit of crowd control to back up and kite them soon changes thier minds. Whoops, too late!

Kheldras's Avatar


Kheldras
12.21.2011 , 07:35 AM | #48
This might have to do, with the first Flashpoint being more or less a Zerg... and actually i wonder that there are so many non-elites inside the FP.

Not idea how the second FP works, more traditional?
...and thats the way the flatcake crumbles.

LinsesPreia's Avatar


LinsesPreia
12.21.2011 , 07:36 AM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by Akzent View Post
Cause ppl are idiots... Have had a few groups where I'm tanking and ppl just rush in all gung ho then when they die, why weren't you healing or why weren't you tanking lol some ppl are just retarded Rambo wannabe's
Yes as healer i agree. I have only got to Hammer Station so far but with a good team its ok. But its more of a challenge than the ezmode mmos i played before, and thats great. They do much damage there and people gets killed quickly if they have no clue and if out of range tanking mobs with no kinda protection. Heavy armor users can often survive and do offtanking of lesser trash but it can make it kinda frustrating for healer if they pull mobs they cant deal with. As healer i see very fast who is gonna die quick and whos gonna soak it up.

I find healing efficiently in this game somewhat more challenging than in other games. You cannot just spam heals on a merc for example that would heat u up too much. Gotta shoot healing blasters in between for slow heals Being able to withstand some damage before you get the initial heal is important. Met some juggernaut who did that good he tanked good, but i didnt have to heal him so much because he was well protected.

LinsesPreia's Avatar


LinsesPreia
12.21.2011 , 07:46 AM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by Kheldras View Post
This might have to do, with the first Flashpoint being more or less a Zerg... and actually i wonder that there are so many non-elites inside the FP.

Not idea how the second FP works, more traditional?
Yes it seemed more of a challenge. With more whipes and frustration for healers. Surely depend on level of team-members. We were only 16ish. And we had some challenge.

But its fun and you get to practice ur skills more than the first flashpoint (lvl10) which was more like a cool story with a little zerg fighting here and there