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Let tanks tank!


Kesitah's Avatar


Kesitah
12.21.2011 , 06:13 AM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by Kagek View Post
Depends on what kind of tank you are, if you're a guardian/jugg you might have trouble getting those mobs on you. Then they're running around attacking healers so no reason for other guys not to be off-tanking them.
Not only guardian/juggs might have problems. A different kind of problems consular tanks have. Several times it happened to me, I waited a moment for everyone being ready - then the dps jedi knight jumped straight into the mobgroup. Even if I then activated force speed he already had aggro. Then, as was described, everyone spread up, the jedi knight and the healer each having aggro of some of the mobs. At that level I do not yet have force pull, and Mind maze (to CC one of the mobs) only works while I am stealthed, and my AOE moves will only "get" some of the mobs due to them being split up over the room (sure, my stun still works, and that other CC I have I can cast on some ranged mob, still, and asides from that running around and catching all mobs from everyone).

Another problem though - in groupquests we usually had at least 2, sometimes 3 tankspecced players. Due to nonexistence of dualspec all of them were like "*I* am the tank", so all competed on aggro which resulted in weird gameplay (sometimes tanks dragging "their mobs" away from the other tank, so he cannot "steal them", might partially be a reason for that splitting up the OP describes). For some reason the tank role seems to be much more popular than in other MMOs (really rare are healers).

This problem is worsened by people not knowing certain classes as tank (in other games if you encounter a tank you know he is a tank, SWTOR is still new, people are not used to the mechanic, and think the tank-specced shadow is some sort of DPS or even a healer "as consulars are healers", or think the tank-specced trooper is some sort of ranged DPS.
Might be partially an issue that you don't see a health value when clicking a player, only a healthbar without text. So they cannot decide if this is a tank based on a health amount (only when looking at the tooltip or mousing over the bar). Despite a tank not being decided by its hitpoints I am absolutely convinced many players, also in other MMOs, judge "tank or not tank" by amount of hitpoints. Guardian tanks seem to be pretty "good" in the art of not noticing other tankspecced players who are not Guardians, as to my experience ^^

Kesitah's Avatar


Kesitah
12.21.2011 , 06:23 AM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by Karinah View Post
Yeah, I've watched too many squishies pull aggro, then claim they are "offtanking" something while I'm trying to heal their cloth covered butts back up
Are you 100% sure they were squishies and not actually cloth-covered Shadow tanks who noticed the other tank was more - aggressive - about being the tank in this group, and tried to find some role they could fulfill in this group? ^^

Aryndelin's Avatar


Aryndelin
12.21.2011 , 06:26 AM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by tharbison View Post
I've only been in a few FP groups so far, and it probably doesn't matter much at low levels, but what's up with groups scattering in a room each taking different mobs?! What ever happened to helping the tank! As a healer it will drive you crazy. Especially when people are on opposite sides of the room and get out of range of heals (why didn't you heal me?!).

Work as a unit people! Stand united! Your healers will thank you!
some people are just idiots and some are not. ^^

At low level though the mobs arent that though luckily and people can most of the time get away with it (flashpoint wise, its worse at HC4 quests :P or if its flashpoint elite group).

As a sniper i try to target the tanks target, unless there's a foolish weak mob tickling the healer, then that mob takes a explosive probe + ambush and drops dead.

Still people need to work as a group, and more importantly: use their brains :x
God knows how often i've told my friend to turn on his.

Oh yea, in mandalorian raiders i also got the tank/dps duty of taking down the jedi sentinel/sith marauder member of the 4-man boss (2nd boss encounter) in such cases its fine to utilize us =) (only strategy that worked, me and the healer ended up duoing the trooper one down since the tanks died). In some cases its ok to utilize "DPS" for what in older mmo's would fall under "tank jobs". Think utility. (in my case: cover, 3 sec 100% dodge, high single target dps etc etc).

Bone_Machine's Avatar


Bone_Machine
12.21.2011 , 06:26 AM | #34
It's easy to spot the noob dps by the fact that they can't leave the bloody exposive barrels alone. Guess what? We get threat for that too.
Here Comes The Arm

Nylyan's Avatar


Nylyan
12.21.2011 , 06:27 AM | #35
Personally I'm a Sith Juggernaut, DPS, and in some cases, an offtank.
What I like to do is talk to the group, and ofcourse check if anyone has CC's in the group before we start, then you can easily assign a CCer to a mark which you mark the mobs with.

I usually go with the ''Aim'' mark being the main target to nuke(This goes mainly for packs of elites) and fire being 2nd, then the non-marked target is the last objective.
The marks for CC's vary ofcourse, but so far this has worked out fine for me, even if sometimes you have to take a bit of extra time to explain exactly what someone needs to do.
Sure as hell beats wiping over and over due to no communication.

unusualbiker's Avatar


unusualbiker
12.21.2011 , 06:29 AM | #36
After reading all the posts here, I'm dreading doing the flash points. I rolled a healer (did a little in the game that shall not be named) and done a couple of 2 man quests, nothing major.

So having the tank, tank and me kust focusing on that one person makes sense. Im all for using every ones strengths and being treated as equal but that only works when things are going well. With the stuff hits the fan the blame goes on one person.

My problem is I dont wanna let people down but I dont no a good place to start. It'd be nice if you could get some practise runs in without fear of everyones wrath.
I like the idea of healing and getting good at it with practise but get put off of practising cos im still a n00b.

Aryndelin's Avatar


Aryndelin
12.21.2011 , 06:34 AM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by unusualbiker View Post
After reading all the posts here, I'm dreading doing the flash points. I rolled a healer (did a little in the game that shall not be named) and done a couple of 2 man quests, nothing major.

So having the tank, tank and me kust focusing on that one person makes sense. Im all for using every ones strengths and being treated as equal but that only works when things are going well. With the stuff hits the fan the blame goes on one person.

My problem is I dont wanna let people down but I dont no a good place to start. It'd be nice if you could get some practise runs in without fear of everyones wrath.
I like the idea of healing and getting good at it with practise but get put off of practising cos im still a n00b.
dont worry about it, start healing in groups as early as you can (Black talon/esseless, coruscant/dromund kaas HC quests) and you'll get experience.

Chaotic groups gives the best teaching actually. (But thats my personal experience). You wont find a better situation where you're forced to learn resource to healing management ^^

Kneemo's Avatar


Kneemo
12.21.2011 , 06:37 AM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by unusualbiker View Post
After reading all the posts here, I'm dreading doing the flash points. I rolled a healer (did a little in the game that shall not be named) and done a couple of 2 man quests, nothing major.

So having the tank, tank and me kust focusing on that one person makes sense. Im all for using every ones strengths and being treated as equal but that only works when things are going well. With the stuff hits the fan the blame goes on one person.

My problem is I dont wanna let people down but I dont no a good place to start. It'd be nice if you could get some practise runs in without fear of everyones wrath.
I like the idea of healing and getting good at it with practise but get put off of practising cos im still a n00b.
Black talon and the republic equivalent are very forgiving as they are the first flashes. Good place to start.

DeltoorThree's Avatar


DeltoorThree
12.21.2011 , 06:40 AM | #39
I know what you mean, at level 23 I was gonna do Athiss with my commando healer, along with guardian, gunslinger and shadow. The shadow was DPS specced while the guardian was tank, so it was obvious who was gonna be the tank, it seemed like the shadow tried way to hard to get aggro, so I refused to heal her if the wouldn't quit doing so, she was offended and left group. Better for all of us

Mortal_Sword's Avatar


Mortal_Sword
12.21.2011 , 06:55 AM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by unusualbiker View Post
After reading all the posts here, I'm dreading doing the flash points. I rolled a healer (did a little in the game that shall not be named) and done a couple of 2 man quests, nothing major.

So having the tank, tank and me kust focusing on that one person makes sense. Im all for using every ones strengths and being treated as equal but that only works when things are going well. With the stuff hits the fan the blame goes on one person.

My problem is I dont wanna let people down but I dont no a good place to start. It'd be nice if you could get some practise runs in without fear of everyones wrath.
I like the idea of healing and getting good at it with practise but get put off of practising cos im still a n00b.
This is an artificial normality established by the play experiences of other MMOs. In game like WoW, until endgame this is exactly how every group was supposed to work. The tank holds aggro on everything, DPS hits his target, healer heals tank, loot drops and we go home.

Turns out that style of play is boring for players AND developers. What you see at the higher endgame content of many of these games is more complex fights, such as fights where aggro is dropped, where there is a large amount of AOE damage, or any number of other "oddball" factors.

You would be far better served learning to be a more dynamic healer and player from the get go. You should be cultivating skills to handle situations that are not the traditional norm. You should be prepared to heal your DPS in an AOE encounter, or prepared to heal the offtank when the MT dies or the encounter drops his aggro.

Encounter design is moving away from that cookie cutter norm, because after fifteen years of MMOs, everyone is pretty tired of it. Expect the unexpected, stay on your toes.

By all means, keep people in check. The culprit may be a newb, may not really understand their role or character, may as some mentioned above be confused as to who is the tank, etc. Discuss issues calmly and without insults and accusation and you will cultivate good group experiences, and maybe even a few new friendships.

People are far more willing to wipe earlier in the game than later, so develop your skills early!
Ammanas <Onward>
Jedi Shadow - Mind Trick