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Let tanks tank!


Warstrike's Avatar


Warstrike
12.21.2011 , 01:53 AM | #21
I'm def. intent on Tanking in this game
(I REFUSE to "Heal" ....ever .....again....... really)


Standard approach for all tanking issues:

Your healer is the one you keep mobs off of.
If dps is not letting the tank, tank.... then they need to handle the mobs

However - from what I'm seeing (albet lowly lv 15 stuff)
The dps can pretty much handle individual trash mobs
It's kinda feeling like we only NEED tanking on bosses.

Which from my stand-point is great
Frees us up from having to be everywhere at once

Now- of course if it gets harder at higher levels
and DPS start exploding like wet baggies of soup
The... it becomes evolution in action

Nitewolfe's Avatar


Nitewolfe
12.21.2011 , 03:50 AM | #22
I am a experienced dps player. I have dps in many games for many years.
What i am finding here as a main issue is lack of target of target window and tanks that wont mark targets. I dont need threat meters or any of that junk. But i need some type of indicator of what target my tank is on! Ether premark the targets or tell me which one you want dead first! All to often here in this game i am drawing agro because the tank is not on the target i am even though i waiting to try and see which one he was going after.
A tank today was commenting that there is no easy way to mark targets on the fly. Seems you cant keybind the marks.

Kneemo's Avatar


Kneemo
12.21.2011 , 05:05 AM | #23
Not healing somebody on purpose is stupid and not necessary. Same wth tank not helping those who mess up. You don't punish somebody for not doing their job by not doing yours. If its that much of a problem everybody will die whether you attempt to help or not. I understand its frustrating but there is no reason to be a dick. Especially since there are a lot if new mmo players in this game and don't know any better.

ParaB's Avatar


ParaB
12.21.2011 , 05:08 AM | #24
So far I've played Esseles, Hammer Station and Athiss as Commando healer. If I see my group doing stupid stuff I simply tell them how things should be done. In a polite way. Stuff like 'don't break CC' ("what's cc? close combat?"), 'be careful with your AoEs' ("what's aoe?"), 'let the tank' pull etc.pp...

There are quite a few people new to MMORPGs in SW:TOR at the moment and most seem to be thankful for a bit of help.

Mortal_Sword's Avatar


Mortal_Sword
12.21.2011 , 05:21 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Seancstew View Post
My Main is a Vangaurd Shield Spec, and I am a tank.

I have never had a problem tanking in heroics or flashpoints, why? Because regardless of who the group leader is, the tank controls the ebb and flow of the mission.

If you are the tank, then take charge of the group, its as simple as that. Healers keep tanks alive so that the pew pew's (or, in this game froom froom's) can go ahead and slice, dice and shoot holes in the baddies.


If they dont want you controlling the speed of the mission based upon Healer cooldowns, and your own taunt/mitigation cooldowns. Then leave the group.

Second in charge should be the Healer...

THEN the CC/support types...

THEN the DPS'rs...

DPS players should never be lead on anything, nothing against them, I like playing DPS toons as well. But they tend to make things harder on everyone else.

Just my two cents. If the peeps you are grouped with do not like that, oh well, leave, and let them find someone else.
Ummm. No.

Rolling a tank doesn't give you the right to be your own little Attila the Hun. Good groups work together, converse and strategize, and try to get the most out of everyone's abilities. Same goes for healers, CC, DPS, ANYONE. No one is better than someone else or more important. I've seen healers who refuse to heal DPS, and then wipe over and over again because they don't realize that you can't win some fights without an appropriate amount of DPS. Everyone should be doing their job, and if there is a problem handle it like adults.

As one fella above mentioned, I play Jedi Shadow (mirror to Sith Assassin) and I also DPS the normal mobs in pack pulls. I do this for many reasons, the first being that it is easy to do. I can usually down the normals quickly and assist on the elite(s) once finished. I take almost no damage doing this, and I even have tanking cooldowns I can pop if needed. I sometimes even switch to Combat and put Guard on the healer to be extra cautious on some fights (I'm looking at you Council fight in Mandalorian Raiders).

Many players have this old school mentality that the Tank and Healer are the center of the world, and that everyone else is just there as chaffe. This isn't true anymore, and it shouldn't be true in good game design. Every member of the group should have a role, and there should be some encounters where that role is flexible or dynamic.

This mentality that the Tank is "in charge" needs to go. Get over yourself. I'm not here to follow your target of target and mash the same rotation until everything dies in the order you determine (erroneously or not).

Don't make me remind you how often it is the Neanderthal tank types who charge into every pull without letting the CC classes utilizes their abilties (Sap much? Oh you already aggro'ed, nvm).

You want to complain or get on a soapbox about good playstyle? Teach people to fill their role and to do it with some sense of logic. Until you are maximizing every advantage and minimizing every risk on EACH and EVERY pull, you have no room to talk.

SWTOR is a revolutionary game in this aspect. The lines have been blurred, each class has multiple roles and isn't pigeon holed to just one playstyle. Has it ever occurred to anyone that perhaps the old ways aren't applicable here? That perhaps these encounters are designed to be different?
Ammanas <Onward>
Jedi Shadow - Mind Trick

Mortal_Sword's Avatar


Mortal_Sword
12.21.2011 , 05:24 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Nitewolfe View Post
I am a experienced dps player. I have dps in many games for many years.
What i am finding here as a main issue is lack of target of target window and tanks that wont mark targets. I dont need threat meters or any of that junk. But i need some type of indicator of what target my tank is on! Ether premark the targets or tell me which one you want dead first! All to often here in this game i am drawing agro because the tank is not on the target i am even though i waiting to try and see which one he was going after.
A tank today was commenting that there is no easy way to mark targets on the fly. Seems you cant keybind the marks.
This.

Right now there is no way for me to be sure what you are targeting sometimes. We have ranged tanks for Force sake. Time to roll it back a bit and realize its not the same old hat anymore.
Ammanas <Onward>
Jedi Shadow - Mind Trick

Tarengrim's Avatar


Tarengrim
12.21.2011 , 05:28 AM | #27
Actually, everyone can mark Mobs, so it does not have to be the Tank or healer or whatever. I usually say everyone gets a mark, and puts it on a Mob he or she can CC for at least 30 seconds. A 8 second stun is no CC in my eyes.

Anyway, Everyone marks what he can CC, the first mob to die gets the targeting sign, the second the fire and then it does not matter anymore.

As for people running around, yes it is annoying and if my Resources allow it, I prevent them from dropping dead, but if I am below 70% I am not taking any chances, especially not on trash mobs, that is just humiliating to die on those.
My opinion, if you do not know the Instance/FP, you stick back, behind the Tank or whoever knows the area. If they write Wait, you wait, they most likely are typing about how to tackle the next encounter.

And for Petes sake, stop running around corners to evade your healers heals.

Moneydie's Avatar


Moneydie
12.21.2011 , 05:44 AM | #28
The game has target markers which is all thats really needed. DBM is a raid timer tool and so far I've seen no need for anything like that. Omen is fairly irrelevant nowadays in wow as blizz gave tanks pretty huge aggro generation. I hope you didnt mention dps meters as thats just epeen stroking

If a dps decides to pull aggro on an unmarked or CC'd one then let them die, at somepoint they will do one of a few things. Mostly this will be either to learn that dps is primarily there to help the tank kill the designated target or ragequit after having died so often their gears broken. The latter may or may not come with a stream of abuse, noob calling, etc.

As a tank you have to be vigilant yes but not to the point of having traumatic stress by the end of the run brought about from having to rescue the same muppet over and over and over. Even the average wow pugger can comprehend the see skull kill skull tactic.

Kneemo's Avatar


Kneemo
12.21.2011 , 05:45 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Mortal_Sword View Post
Ummm. No.

Rolling a tank doesn't give you the right to be your own little Attila the Hun. Good groups work together, converse and strategize, and try to get the most out of everyone's abilities. Same goes for healers, CC, DPS, ANYONE. No one is better than someone else or more important. I've seen healers who refuse to heal DPS, and then wipe over and over again because they don't realize that you can't win some fights without an appropriate amount of DPS. Everyone should be doing their job, and if there is a problem handle it like adults.

As one fella above mentioned, I play Jedi Shadow (mirror to Sith Assassin) and I also DPS the normal mobs in pack pulls. I do this for many reasons, the first being that it is easy to do. I can usually down the normals quickly and assist on the elite(s) once finished. I take almost no damage doing this, and I even have tanking cooldowns I can pop if needed. I sometimes even switch to Combat and put Guard on the healer to be extra cautious on some fights (I'm looking at you Council fight in Mandalorian Raiders).

Many players have this old school mentality that the Tank and Healer are the center of the world, and that everyone else is just there as chaffe. This isn't true anymore, and it shouldn't be true in good game design. Every member of the group should have a role, and there should be some encounters where that role is flexible or dynamic.

This mentality that the Tank is "in charge" needs to go. Get over yourself. I'm not here to follow your target of target and mash the same rotation until everything dies in the order you determine (erroneously or not).

Don't make me remind you how often it is the Neanderthal tank types who charge into every pull without letting the CC classes utilizes their abilties (Sap much? Oh you already aggro'ed, nvm).

You want to complain or get on a soapbox about good playstyle? Teach people to fill their role and to do it with some sense of logic. Until you are maximizing every advantage and minimizing every risk on EACH and EVERY pull, you have no room to talk.

SWTOR is a revolutionary game in this aspect. The lines have been blurred, each class has multiple roles and isn't pigeon holed to just one playstyle. Has it ever occurred to anyone that perhaps the old ways aren't applicable here? That perhaps these encounters are designed to be different?
Agree completely. Don't strip us of our abilities and be mad when we don't use them. Dps aren't your little slaves either. Mention team work but in tank eyes the tank represents the team.

Jeweledleah's Avatar


Jeweledleah
12.21.2011 , 05:54 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by ParaB View Post
So far I've played Esseles, Hammer Station and Athiss as Commando healer. If I see my group doing stupid stuff I simply tell them how things should be done. In a polite way. Stuff like 'don't break CC' ("what's cc? close combat?"), 'be careful with your AoEs' ("what's aoe?"), 'let the tank' pull etc.pp...

There are quite a few people new to MMORPGs in SW:TOR at the moment and most seem to be thankful for a bit of help.
very much this. assume that people are new/inexperienced and explain what should be done. if you know how to fix the issues, don't expect people to read your mind - tell them! politely. it really does work