Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

The truth about Sins/Shadows

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
The truth about Sins/Shadows

THEFERRARICARGUY's Avatar


THEFERRARICARGUY
03.08.2013 , 04:29 PM | #1
I need to point out a few things. people with an average IQ will understand this:

ASSASSIN DPS SPECS WERE
NEVER OVERPOWERED


-23/1/17 had a incredible amount of utility, damage, and survivability.-This has been nerfed with 2.0

-Deception and Madness were never OP. Whoever thought they were, you have some serious l2p issues (unless you're a merc of course)

-This whole "Tank sins are OP" crap came from sins using dps gear in tank stance/spec.

Now, onto the biggest points here.

Darkness hybrids, like 23/1/17 have lost a load of utility. Bioware has taken away instant whirlwind, out of stealth spike, and the damage has been lowered too. Maul (darkness) has now been moved to conspirator's cloak, which is a weak talent, and was intended for pve tanking. Anybody who has played the spec before knows that mauls don't proc often, and even if it does crit, it's a 4k hit, which isn't saying much. It's a 10% chance and has an internal cooldown of 15 seconds with that one point, so consider this, with 30% crit chance, a duplicity maul proc crit has a very low chance of doing more damage than trash, which also leads into my second point.

Energized Shocks. These may be quite powerful with recklessness, but even fully power stacked, the most this will ever crit for is around 4.2k-ish on a geared player, and with the expertise pickup on map. Without recklessness this shock is nothing, 2.5k crits are quite small compared to 20k health pools of most players, and can be healed through like a breeze. The only time a darkness sin will have burst is with 3x Harnessed Darkness force lightning crits, energized shocks, maul, and death field (if specced) which is a 3-person AoE nuke, which frankly, doesn't hit "Insanely Hard" as most people think. An average death field crit for me would be around 3.3k, and doesn't crit as often as you'd want. The majority of this "burst" is single target and requires some luck to take down a non recruit geared player quickly.

Survivability-
These darkness hybrids aren't as tough as you'd really think. In general, they're squishy, unless you have a guarded pocket healer and have people taunted. This part is what I believe gets most people off about "OP" as they can do good damage and still get protection, but really, it's the utility that is what gives them the survivability. They have enough cc to keep multiple people off a healer and even kill them, but a smart person would know that sins can't sustain themselves through self heals, and without cooldowns they're just as squishy as marauders, smash juggs, and powertechs. To be realistic, force shroud, deflection, and force cloak are the 3 abilties that the assassin can use defensively.

In all reality, assassins/shadows are the ultimate kings of 1v1, but in a realistic group scenario, have no other role than guarding healers and using cc abilties. There is barely any damage output whatsoever. This is why they are the ideal node guards and why they're "OP"

Now nerfs-

Madness:

Madness has lost duplicity, instant whirlwind, the melee bonus damage on shock, and survivability as crit diminishing returns have caused self heals to proc around 1/5th of the time, while previously it was 1/3rd of the time. Madness has also lost utility and burst. What has happened here, is that madness is officially the boring as hell tab dot spec. Not to mention it has lost an incredible amount of sustained dps in pve.

Deception:

Deception is a personal favourite spec of mine, and has taken a really big hit for pvp, as the spec is now centered around maul. While maul is a great ability, it's also the only real way we have to burst a target down, since discharge and shock hit like wet noodles and again, with crit diminishing returns, cannot put any pressure on the targets due to new mitigation changes, like force/tech attacks being able to be shielded, and since it really only has 1 high hitting ability, which is maul, this is also a loss for pve content as assassins were already near the bottom of the dps food chain and now are lost too far to be even worth taking into a raid environment, when a powertech does nearly 30% more dps with this new hybrid build.

Darkness:

Instant whirlwind is now gone, duplicity is gone, the class has lost out of stealth spike without again investing a large amount of points to get the talent, and has also taken a 20% hit to armor rating.

So to summarize:

-Our dps trees have been crippled, our tanking tree has AGAIN been buffed, and due to people not knowing how the class works, have imbalanced the class, yet again. I implore you, do assassin dps specs REALLY need nerfing? It would help to do some research on the class rather than just call for nerfs, just because you see something happen (Like a perfect storm assault from an assassin that destroys you) that does not mean you can accuse everything of being OP. It would definitely help to learn what aspects of the class are OP, rather than just nerfing what isn't, and essential for the class to have some viability.

My suggestion (Very Important People Read This):

Eliminate the damage/utility potential of all darkness based hybrids (Done by restricting certain talents to stances, like unstoppable for shien form, but not crippling the TANKING ASPECT), return instant whirlwind and duplicty back, and give unearthed knowledge back to madness. Lock duplicity to surging charge/lightning charge, and instant cast whirlwind back to lightning charge (let the return of instant whirlwind apply to sorcs as well, but tie it to something in the tree to avoid any ridiculous hybrid specs)

Hopefully people understand this..

cycao's Avatar


cycao
03.08.2013 , 04:39 PM | #2
People seem fine with the fact that the dps specs have been effectively removed from the game and most hated the hybrids stemming from the tanking tree when the fact is more hybrids will be around, the majority coming from the tanking tree since its the only one that did not receive nerfs.


All I wanted was madness to remain the same, not a nerf...why nerf it no one played it anyways

THEFERRARICARGUY's Avatar


THEFERRARICARGUY
03.08.2013 , 04:43 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by cycao View Post
People seem fine with the fact that the dps specs have been effectively removed from the game and most hated the hybrids stemming from the tanking tree when the fact is more hybrids will be around, the majority coming from the tanking tree since its the only one that did not receive nerfs.


All I wanted was madness to remain the same, not a nerf...why nerf it no one played it anyways
I know.... R.I.P. Madness you will be missed forever.

Aluvi's Avatar


Aluvi
03.08.2013 , 04:53 PM | #4
The only thing SINS were ever OP at was 1v1. I think they are still at the top of that, and these nerfs did nothing to change the "vanish / sap / Seethe" overpowered heal aspect of 1v1, which is the only thing that really made them unbeatable in that regard (at least to a marauder).

And hey, if this game is not based around 1v1, that's fine. I'm content with not being the top 1v1 class, so long as my class is still viable overall in rated pvp, which it is. The things they nerfed, I was kind of left scratching my head saying "this needed nerfed?". Kind of like the healing nerf for Annihilation, the already most underused spec.
Aluvien Sith Marauder <Infinite Darkness> Shadowlands
Aluviann Jedi Sentinel <Triumph> Shadowlands

THEFERRARICARGUY's Avatar


THEFERRARICARGUY
03.08.2013 , 05:04 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Aluvi View Post
The only thing SINS were ever OP at was 1v1. I think they are still at the top of that, and these nerfs did nothing to change the "vanish / sap / Seethe" overpowered heal aspect of 1v1, which is the only thing that really made them unbeatable in that regard (at least to a marauder).

And hey, if this game is not based around 1v1, that's fine. I'm content with not being the top 1v1 class, so long as my class is still viable overall in rated pvp, which it is. The things they nerfed, I was kind of left scratching my head saying "this needed nerfed?". Kind of like the healing nerf for Annihilation, the already most underused spec.
The problem is, that It never was. I'm talking about dps assassins being viable in multiple environments, not just 1v1s

VigDiath's Avatar


VigDiath
03.08.2013 , 05:14 PM | #6
Well...people got what they wanted. DPS Shadows/Sins are horrid for both pvp and pve and Tanks are still "tough" but will have no hitting power unless we go hybrid for an extra bit of damage.

Well done QQers and Well done EAWare!
Jedi Covenant (The Baltimore Legacy)
Laaron - 55 (Shadow Tank) Eulora - 55 (Sage Healer)
Madmartygan - 55 (Guardian DPS) Skylaadawn - 55 (Sab Smug)
Akon - 55 (Carnage Marauder) L'aron - 53 (Sorc Healer)

Zaxem's Avatar


Zaxem
03.08.2013 , 05:24 PM | #7
I agree 100% tho i will say this i probably am wrong but the changes to deception doesn't feel like a nerf in a pve point of view. From a pve point of a view just fills like the other classes got buffed more i still do about 2100-2200 dps on the pts with the starter gear with stim/adrenal and DG relics seems decent to me even tho other classes do more but it does feel like a nerf in pvp for sure due to the lack of burst now
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.-Through passion, I gain strength.Through strength, I gain power.Through power, I gain victory.Through victory, my chains are broken.The Force shall free me 55 Juggernaut55 Assassin 50 Sniper 55 Mercenary50 Guardian55 Marauder

THEFERRARICARGUY's Avatar


THEFERRARICARGUY
03.08.2013 , 05:27 PM | #8
2200 in basic gear? I'd like to see a parse of that for sure, but I'm not really buying it when there are full BiS arkanian sins only doing 2200 dps in pve, and barely being able to perform any decent burst in pvp.

Zaxem's Avatar


Zaxem
03.08.2013 , 05:40 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by THEFERRARICARGUY View Post
2200 in basic gear? I'd like to see a parse of that for sure, but I'm not really buying it when there are full BiS arkanian sins only doing 2200 dps in pve, and barely being able to perform any decent burst in pvp.
well it's more between 2100-2200 think last time i parsed was around 2140-2160's something like that but just alot easier to say 2100-2200 it's been about 5 days since last i did a parse i could do a parse again later could be i just got lucky crits or something
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.-Through passion, I gain strength.Through strength, I gain power.Through power, I gain victory.Through victory, my chains are broken.The Force shall free me 55 Juggernaut55 Assassin 50 Sniper 55 Mercenary50 Guardian55 Marauder

GalnarDegana's Avatar


GalnarDegana
03.08.2013 , 06:17 PM | #10
I think the myths came from this scenario:

Assassin pops Force Shroud

Whiners: "None of my skills are damaging him!!!11!!111eleventyone"

I have no problems on my Gunslinger with an Assassin in the open where I can see him and his buffs. I know when to not shoot him. Now when he gets the jump on me, different story. I think it is largely a l2p issue.
Gunslinger Guide | Complete Valor Points List | Official Gunslinger Representative Questions Page
Harbinger: Geldarion ('Slinger), Shadowlands: Geldaria (Sniper)
Owner of The Fanatical Swordsman, cohost for Casual Core Radio, PvP Writer and former cohost for Corellian Run Radio