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i love the prequels as much as the originals

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
i love the prequels as much as the originals

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
03.07.2013 , 11:11 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Ventessel View Post
The music was all John Williams, and we weren't talking about the music. It's probably the only reason the PT is memorable at all, was because John Williams carried the torch. To say the love scenes weren't brilliantly acted would imply that there even exist actors who could make those scenes into something that wasn't atrocious. The political scenes simply didn't make sense, they revolved around overly complex schemes that were never explained to the audience.

The visuals are good, the concepts and story were absolute trash. Not one single part of the plot made any sense when you sat down and thought about it. The original trilogy was at times a little cheesy, and Return of the Jedi was a bit contrived, but the first two films were outstanding. They had a tight story, and kept you on the edge of your seat.

Which cinematography, exactly? The CGI opening shot for Revenge of the Sith? That was hardly impressive, and the battle as a whole was never really made clear to the audience. You just saw a chaotic jumble of ships and explosions, and then the Jedi land on Grievous' ship... how dramatic.
Wait, we're talking about the Prequels right? In their entirety, which includes music along with anything else. It obvious that a lot of the flaws of the Prequels are subjective opinions. For example I thought the story was very well done, especially the central crux of the Clone Wars which was really all a ploy of Palpatine designed to grant him ultimate power. I thought that idea of taking over the Republic from the inside was very clever. I also liked the explanation behind the origins of the Death Star, very cool.

Your also making a lot of general, blanketing statements here, for example all of the concepts were bad. Yet I liked most of them including every single planet, the Nubian starships, the Separatist and Republic warships, Jedi starfighters, the Jedi Temple, Jedi Padawans, a ecumenopolis, various alien species e.g. Geonosian, Zabrak, Muun, Neimoidian, Skaoan, Kaminoan etc., pod racing, the various battle droids e.g. Super battle droids, Magnaguards, crab droids, spider droids etc. I could go on, these are all concepts, yet you claim they are all 'absolute trash'. Yet I would consider them to incredibly inventive and imaginative, better than any other sci-fi I've seen. Your opinion is quite strange because that means you consider the majority of the Star Wars universe to be 'trash' - its a wonder your even playing this game.

Also not one single part of the plot made sense? What about the part were the Sith Lord Sidious commenced Order 66, a kill order directed at Jedi, and the clones started killing Jedi? That made sense to me... Please explain to me how everything in the Prequels makes no sense whatsoever.

I also liked the opening to Revenge of the Sith, you seem to think its lacklustre, but it had the exact opposite effect on me so again, matter of opinion I guess.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
03.07.2013 , 11:12 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Ventessel View Post
And that's one of the most glaring problems with the Prequels' plots. Nothing makes any sense without books and novelizations to attempt to explain what the movie was about in the first place.
I haven't read the books or the novelizations and yet I understand the plot... its really not that complex.

Ventessel's Avatar


Ventessel
03.07.2013 , 11:54 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Wait, we're talking about the Prequels right? In their entirety, which includes music along with anything else. It obvious that a lot of the flaws of the Prequels are subjective opinions. For example I thought the story was very well done, especially the central crux of the Clone Wars which was really all a ploy of Palpatine designed to grant him ultimate power. I thought that idea of taking over the Republic from the inside was very clever. I also liked the explanation behind the origins of the Death Star, very cool.

Your also making a lot of general, blanketing statements here, for example all of the concepts were bad. Yet I liked most of them including every single planet, the Nubian starships, the Separatist and Republic warships, Jedi starfighters, the Jedi Temple, Jedi Padawans, a ecumenopolis, various alien species e.g. Geonosian, Zabrak, Muun, Neimoidian, Skaoan, Kaminoan etc., pod racing, the various battle droids e.g. Super battle droids, Magnaguards, crab droids, spider droids etc. I could go on, these are all concepts, yet you claim they are all 'absolute trash'. Yet I would consider them to incredibly inventive and imaginative, better than any other sci-fi I've seen. Your opinion is quite strange because that means you consider the majority of the Star Wars universe to be 'trash' - its a wonder your even playing this game.
Perhaps you misunderstood what I meant when I said "concepts", I didn't mean the actual things that appeared on the screen, those are visuals. The starships, droids, etc. all looked cool, and they were inventive. However, their implementation frequently felt forced.

Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Also not one single part of the plot made sense? What about the part were the Sith Lord Sidious commenced Order 66, a kill order directed at Jedi, and the clones started killing Jedi? That made sense to me... Please explain to me how everything in the Prequels makes no sense whatsoever.
Well, even that part really didn't make sense when compared with the plot as a whole. Sure, the Clones were programmed to murder the Jedi on command... but not one single person in the entire Republic stopped to ask,
"Hey, umm.... where'd all these armies and gunships come from? I thought we were still arguing about that military creation act in the Senate? Doesn't it take years to grow Clones?"

The Jedi just blindly accepted this plot device, without any reason beyond "The script calls for a Clone War, so we're bloody well going to have one!"

Sure, it's clever and sneaky of Palpatine to take over the Republic from the inside, but the War seemed entirely meaningless and without consequence. Clones and droids are dying, few citizens of the Republic seem affected by the war. When Palpatine declares himself Emperor, everyone is cheering. Coruscant appears completely unchanged since the war began, no shortages or other signs of hardship. By all appearances, everything is fine and dandy under the Empire. It is completely unclear why the Rebel Alliance would ever form under this regime.

Furthermore, the Jedi seem more than willing to just play along with Palpatine. They never discuss peace terms, nor do they make any inquiries into the source of the Clone Armies, or publicly call Palpatine out for not being willing to step down when his term is complete.


Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
I also liked the opening to Revenge of the Sith, you seem to think its lacklustre, but it had the exact opposite effect on me so again, matter of opinion I guess.
Again, it looked neat, the warships were cool. However, the entire beginning of the film made no sense. Why was the chancellor being kidnapped? If he was such a valuable prisoner, why was he guarded by a couple droids which everyone knows posed little to no threat to the Jedi?

Dooku and Grievous were on the same ship? Why didn't they confront the Jedi together? Apparently Grievous had no idea that Palpatine was Sidious... so it would have been kind of awkward if he had killed Anakin and Obi-Wan, or worse, decided that executing Palpatine was preferable to having him rescued by the Jedi. Not one character in the entire film takes any sensible actions.

It's painfully obvious that George Lucas was just flying through the script, and no one was bothering to call him out on inconsistencies or plot holes. I think they actually worked off first drafts for the most part when filming. It's this huge lack of believable characterization that killed the Prequels, as well as the plot being incomprehensibly stupid. I've thoroughly enjoyed watching the films while intoxicated, because the plot holes bother you a lot less when you're just watching the pretty visuals. Otherwise, it's painful to watch the prequels.
The Heir to ChaosAdded Chapter Sixteen-- 17 APR 2013
“People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.” ~ George Orwell

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
03.07.2013 , 01:34 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Ventessel View Post
Perhaps you misunderstood what I meant when I said "concepts", I didn't mean the actual things that appeared on the screen, those are visuals. The starships, droids, etc. all looked cool, and they were inventive. However, their implementation frequently felt forced.
It seems you misunderstood me, my definition of 'concept' is in a simple sense, an idea. And starships, droids, planets, aliens etc. are ideas among others. I can't think of any 'ideas' in Star Wars that I would define as 'trash' - because I love the idea of Star Wars and that's partly what makes the films so great.

But I understand your point, and partly agree. (Although the existence of a Clone Army was explained.) Also notice that the war itself took up little of the story, sure there were lots of battles but these were always revolving around greater themes. However again, I would agree - overall the prequels were rushed and I think they could have benefited from being significantly longer. But that's the only major problem I have with them. Maybe that's because I understand the whole story, or maybe they just appeal to me *shrug*.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
03.07.2013 , 01:43 PM | #25
I liked the Prequels. Sure they had issues, but I don't let those issues get in the way of my enjoyment of the movies.

I think my favorite part of the Prequels was Order 66. Prior to seeing the movie, I had thought long and hard on how the Jedi would be destroyed, but Order 66 never occurred to me. The surprise and moving music of Order 66 and the attack on the Jedi Temple was one of the best moments in the Prequels.

After that, I think the two duels against Sidious are also my favorite moments.

But for those who didn't like the Prequels. Entertainment is subjective. Just roll with it.
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Bad-Wolf's Avatar


Bad-Wolf
03.07.2013 , 03:29 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
I liked the Prequels. Sure they had issues, but I don't let those issues get in the way of my enjoyment of the movies.

I think my favorite part of the Prequels was Order 66. Prior to seeing the movie, I had thought long and hard on how the Jedi would be destroyed, but Order 66 never occurred to me. The surprise and moving music of Order 66 and the attack on the Jedi Temple was one of the best moments in the Prequels.

After that, I think the two duels against Sidious are also my favorite moments.

But for those who didn't like the Prequels. Entertainment is subjective. Just roll with it.
The two things that annoyed me about the prequels
1. Jar jar binks!
2. too much anakin romance, could of been achieved in less time and given more action.

other than those little annoyances, i loved all the movies.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
03.07.2013 , 03:29 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
I liked the Prequels. Sure they had issues, but I don't let those issues get in the way of my enjoyment of the movies.

I think my favorite part of the Prequels was Order 66. Prior to seeing the movie, I had thought long and hard on how the Jedi would be destroyed, but Order 66 never occurred to me. The surprise and moving music of Order 66 and the attack on the Jedi Temple was one of the best moments in the Prequels.

After that, I think the two duels against Sidious are also my favorite moments.

But for those who didn't like the Prequels. Entertainment is subjective. Just roll with it.
Agreed.

Xienive's Avatar


Xienive
03.07.2013 , 03:51 PM | #28
Red letter media's review on YouTube is all I can say...well worth watch and they are hilarious.

I really just think the prequel trilogies had too many flaws overall. For instance one thing that has always stood out to me is the fact that Count Dooku is a horrible villain. If you just base him off of what you see in the movies, he does NOTHING at all to make us dislike him. He isn't really that evil, isn't really rude, doesn't run around choking and electrocuting everybody for fun...we have been given no real reason to dislike this character at all. The goal should be to make an emotional connection of hate between the villain and audience watching. However since we are really given no reason to dislike him or really see him as "evil" it really just makes him a weak character overall.

When we look at Darth Vader in the original trilogy we first see him as a big black armor suited powerful figure, chasing what seems to be a pitiful ship and physically picking somebody up by the neck, choking them and throwing them to the ground dead. Right there we know how sinister and dark this character is and are given an immediate reason to dislike him. Darth Vader is one of if not the most iconic and recognizable villain to anything ever.

It's those kind of things that *really* separate the prequels from the original in my opinion. Those were just a couple of many examples that you could say, and there are more things wrong than just the characters.

If a prequel is on TV and nothing else is on I might give it a watch, but I would almost never put it in my blu ray player to watch any of them because I just wanted to. I would much rather stick in the original trilogy, or The Lord of the Rings.
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Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
03.07.2013 , 04:02 PM | #29
I can't even watch those reviews all the way, cause of the guy's voice...more to that its just his opinion so why should I care? In all honesty, people shouldn't have other people make their own opinions/views on things that should come from yourself, not some guy on the internet. Though from what I recall, the guy was being so nitpicking about stupid things that could be explained if you think about it and do research.

But anyway, off of the tangent there. I like the movies all of em, they fit nice together.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Ventessel's Avatar


Ventessel
03.07.2013 , 07:59 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
I can't even watch those reviews all the way, cause of the guy's voice...more to that its just his opinion so why should I care? In all honesty, people shouldn't have other people make their own opinions/views on things that should come from yourself, not some guy on the internet. Though from what I recall, the guy was being so nitpicking about stupid things that could be explained if you think about it and do research.

But anyway, off of the tangent there. I like the movies all of em, they fit nice together.
The voice was intentional, and quite hilarious. I think the allusion was that he was some elderly ******/serial killer type. But also a grandfather... basically just a running gag throughout the reviews.

And watching an entertaining review which happens to highlight the awful flaws of the prequels isn't having my opinion come from "some guy on the internet", I just happen to agree with everything he says, and he says in an entertaining manner. Of course it's just his opinion, but he backs it up with specific, detailed examples and conducts a thorough review of the films. Aside from the jokes and creepy voice, the reviews are orderly and address the logical issues with the plot and directing in the prequel trilogy.


He was only being "nitpicky" about minor details... like gaping holes in the plot, static cinematography, and utterly absurd conclusions that characters appear to reach in the process of furthering the plot.

As for the Clone Army being explained... kinda? Obi-Wan figured out that Master Sifo-Diyas ordered the clones... but was apparently dead at the time the order was placed. Also, who paid for it? Those Kaminoan cloners just took an IOU from a dead Jedi?

Now, I know that the banking clans secretly financed the army, and Dooku/Plagueis were using Sifo-Diyas to place the order, but NO ONE IN THE REPUBLIC LOOKS INTO THIS. There is no effort by the Jedi to check out the immensely sketchy details behind this war. It was like after the battle of Geonosis the Jedi just forgot about all the highly suspicious things that had been happening right before hand. Like that whole assassination attempt that led them to Kamino in the first place? No one worried that Jango Fett was working with Dooku AND was the template for the Clones?

And, yes, the ideas in the prequels are all really cool. It's the "concepts" which make Star Wars so enjoyable and fun, but there's just no way around how utterly idiotic the Jedi behave in the Prequels. Not to mention the incredibly weak romance between Anakin and Padme. George Lucas fundamentally does not understand how human romances occur, which makes me wonder if that's why Jedi are forbidden to love or marry. Seems like more of a convenient way not to have to deal with that subject in the Jedi Order. Have you noticed that no one in the prequels has a family? (The exception is Bail Organa, but we see his wife for like ten seconds, and that's only because they adopted Leia. Technically, Schmi married Lars, but we only heard about that. She died conveniently before we saw them together.)
The Heir to ChaosAdded Chapter Sixteen-- 17 APR 2013
“People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.” ~ George Orwell