Read in the Paper: Ea is going to add P2W to all their games

There are no such items in game, so I can't provide an example item.

Who said anything about quitting about not being able to craft or afford crystals?

You seem to have indicated there IS a p2w "line" for you, but you don't seem to know exactly where it is. Further you seem to trust that EA will tweak the ingame advantage their cash shop items provide such that they don't ever cross that line, a line made up of "average" players and "gtn affordability".

OK then...

Humor me. Make an item up. Be creative. If BW said, "translucentwolf we love you and we're going to give you an i-win item. What do you want? Oh, and we have to make you something or we'll perma-ban your account.", what would you ask for?

Also, the PvP answer is important. If only PvP items can be considered p2w, it will help narrow the focus of the conversation, which would actually be pretty cool.


Here are the questions again:

Can an insurmountable advantage be gained over another player, by using a hypothetical p2w item, in any aspect of gameplay other than PvP? Say, raiding, for example?

Could you provide an example of an item you would consider p2w in the PvP realm and, if you answered "yes" to the above question, in the Raiding or whatever other realm, too?

You don't think the guys in the BioWare marketing team are considering these things?

Okay then...

Crystals are not pay to win items. Everyone can get them and they offer no advantage in pvp or pve without keeping the rest of your gear updated. The ship parts...who cares? We don't have a real space system. Since there are no P2W items in game the whole argument is pointless.

A level 10 with two War Hero +41 expertise crystals is still going to stomped by a level 25 without them. Even with the bolster system. So where is the advantage of the crystals? Where is it in pve? They only really help as long as you keep your gear updated, and that diminishes with each level you gain.

Alright. Seriously?

You can argue about the definition of P2W all day, and no one is ever going to agree. For most people, it is this massive grey area similar to morality.

I agree that "technically" the +41 lvl 10 crystals are P2W. Why? Because you use IRL cash to get them, and there is no in-game equivalent.

Personally? I wouldn't consider this P2W. You are not getting an advantage over anyone else in the game. They did a good job of tossing this crap out in such a way that anyone has access to those crystals WITHOUT having to spend money. If you're unhappy with the current state of things, voice your opinion ONCE and then unsub and leave. There is NO reason to argue with people who don't agree -- just accept that this is a grey area that everyone has a different view on.

I will continue to play for a while, and see how things go. If they introduce absurd P2W mechanics, like $50 for a level 55 with the best gear in the game? Yeah -- I'll leave. But guess what? Even in games like WoW (before they started selling all the cosmetic crap), you could purchase "amazing" characters and gold and such, just not through Blizzard.

I am giving EA the benefit of the doubt -- no MMO with that type of P2W mechanics has survived. It completely takes out a massive amount of time-sinks they've put into the game to keep people subbing and playing. I'd hope someone at EA is intelligent enough to realize that, while P2W may net them more $$ in the short-term, it will also trash their reputation even more. As it is, I probably wouldn't've picked this game up if EA had been behind it from the start.


TL;DR - Grey area. None of us are correct, because there is no "correct". When you are unhappy, voice your opinion and leave. After the massive exodus pre-1.3, we've seen a decent attempt at making people happier. They got me to re-sub, but if I'm unhappy I'll just leave -- no need to start massive arguments about subjective things!

:-D

I'm not here to make up imaginary items for you. Your +310 item is good enough. If +310 items are added to the game, to the 'cartel packs' only, I would consider that p2w.

But they're not there.

So, the game isn't p2w.

And, you can say 'not yet, they're not'.

As I don't have Uriel's inside knowledge of EA / Bioware's master plan for the game, I can't say that they never will be. But, I don't expect to see such items coming out in the future.

Time will tell. I'll still be here.

Oh, I know for certain they're considering those things! They proved it with their initial implementation of the g7 ship components and the ongoing growth of the +41 crystals. Those are clearly ingame advantages created only by EA getting money, so they're p2w. But they're clearly not "p2w enough" to get the masses to even take notice, let alone complain. Heck, players are even defending it!

EA knows players will spend money for ingame advantage. They want that money. They also know there's a delicate balancing point between "just enough" advantage that players who hate the notion of p2w will tolerate it and "too much" which will push them away.

Since players are defending the current state of p2w, we're clearly nowhere near the "too much" point yet and I'm intrigued to know where players' line is. Thus my line of questioning in this thread.

I'm sure EA is WAY ahead of me figuring this out, and even now they're working out what the next, bigger ingame advantage to go to the CM will be. I'm sure we'll all find out when the "2.0" version of the CM comes out.

I'm equally certain there will be people who say that next step is not p2w because:

• It can be sold on the gtn
• It's still not a big enough ingame advantage to care about
• It's not PvP so it can't really be p2w, now can it?
• They're simply "white knights"

Or any of a variety of other reasons.

OK, sorry, just one more question.

You said my +310 chest would be p2w if it were cartel market only.

What if it were created cartel market only, like the level 10 + 41 crystals are today, but could be sold on the gtn, like the +41 crystals are today?

Then you COULD get that item by doing only ingame things - generating credits, right?

That wouldn't be p2w, would it?

^QFE.

Ineed. Well said.

EA is boiling the frog.