Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Juggernaut Tank - what rotation works for you?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Juggernaut Tank - what rotation works for you?

Darth_Caedes's Avatar


Darth_Caedes
03.02.2013 , 02:28 PM | #1
Hello Tanking Community,

I've been playing around more with my juggernaut and I'm having issues with holding threat at the beginning of a fight. After the first 15 seconds or so everything is fine over time, but as we got more dps with high burst dps it can become tricky for me. I looked around on the forum and everything I can find is older than what I would like. What seems to work for you all? My stats and rotation priority are as following:

30% DEF - 50/50 Shield/Absorb - 27.5k health - 1600 strength

Engaging - Saber Throw - Leap
Initial Rotation - Backhand > Smash > Sundering Assault > Crushing Blow
Priority - Retaliation > Force Screen > Ravage > Force Choke
Enrage on CD and Vicious Slash when I have too much rage

Any pointers or does anyone have something better that works for them?

Marb's Avatar


Marb
03.02.2013 , 11:21 PM | #2
I find it better to use enrage when needed rather then use it pre-emptively (its off the GCD), as sometimes you will have enough stacks of revenge to carry you through to the second sunder, and using back hand and force choke will push you further in, letting you save enrage to get in some vicious slashes during the deadzone of everything being on CD.

Its not a big deal within the first few global cooldowns, if dps spike up (which they will) those first moments of a pull can be scary. It will also really depend on the boss you're fighting (stormcaller is a flatout pain in the arse for immortal).

Just focus on perfecting your initial opener and have taunt ready. I find it best to boost after the first full sunder cycle (so sunder>scream>crushing blow[taunt]). You may also consider grabbing some power adrenals, and / or looking at the hybrid build if you feel up to it (though I don't think hybrid will help you if your only having short-term threat problems on the first few gcd's of a pull).
Harbinger

Jossajus's Avatar


Jossajus
03.26.2013 , 02:35 AM | #3
I'm currently running a Guardian, so I know what you mean. However, I find bosses to be laughably easy to tank (much as they were for Warriors in WoW). The real problem with guard/jugg tanking is ranged trash mobs, especially when there are more than a couple of them or they are spread out. Force Push is not what you would call accurate by any stretch of the imagination, and getting in position to bring the mobs together is easier said than done.

For bosses, my opening rotation usually follows:

Saber throw, force leap, blade storm, master strike, sunder, followed by the usual priority system. Master strike and blade storm are both some of the highest damaging attacks we have, which helps stave off the opening burst of dps.

For groups of mobs, my first priority is landing at least one hit on every enemy in the group, trying to group as many together as i can, then going into the regular aoe priority.

GalenMourne's Avatar


GalenMourne
03.26.2013 , 06:04 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Caedes View Post
Hello Tanking Community,

I've been playing around more with my juggernaut and I'm having issues with holding threat at the beginning of a fight. After the first 15 seconds or so everything is fine over time, but as we got more dps with high burst dps it can become tricky for me. I looked around on the forum and everything I can find is older than what I would like. What seems to work for you all? My stats and rotation priority are as following:

30% DEF - 50/50 Shield/Absorb - 27.5k health - 1600 strength

Engaging - Saber Throw - Leap
Initial Rotation - Backhand > Smash > Sundering Assault > Crushing Blow
Priority - Retaliation > Force Screen > Ravage > Force Choke
Enrage on CD and Vicious Slash when I have too much rage

Any pointers or does anyone have something better that works for them?
With 2.0 on the way if i were you i would start like this:

Saber Throw> Charge> Smash(20% Armor reduction)>Sundering Assault or Enrage>Crushing Blow>Retaliation>Scream>Taunt> Backhand>Ravage>Repeat with fillers.

With 2.0 smash, scream, crushing blow and sundering assault are on 12 second cooldowns , and sundering produces 6 rage. Crushing blow, scream and sweeping slash all cost 1 less rage, retaliation procs off crushing blow as well as defense.

Rage management is cleaned up further and with the 12 second cooldown on the main ablities its easy to line all your buffs, debuffs and defenses in a row.
"You know spies, a bunch of *****y little girls!"

twosixnineone's Avatar


twosixnineone
03.31.2013 , 09:30 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by GalenMourne View Post
With 2.0 on the way if i were you i would start like this:

Saber Throw> Charge> Smash(20% Armor reduction)>Sundering Assault or Enrage>Crushing Blow>Retaliation>Scream>Taunt> Backhand>Ravage>Repeat with fillers.

With 2.0 smash, scream, crushing blow and sundering assault are on 12 second cooldowns , and sundering produces 6 rage. Crushing blow, scream and sweeping slash all cost 1 less rage, retaliation procs off crushing blow as well as defense.

Rage management is cleaned up further and with the 12 second cooldown on the main ablities its easy to line all your buffs, debuffs and defenses in a row.
I would not use Sundering Assault after Smash. You need to hit the target with Crushing Blow ASAP. Opening should be:

Saber Throw > Charge > Smash > Crushing Blow > Sundering Assault

You do not need to stack Smash and Sundering Assault anymore for armor debuff.
You should have enough rage to do this opening rotation.
If you do it right, you rarely, if ever, need to use Enrage.
Retaliation should be used whenever it is up. It should not be part of your rotation.
If you are using Taunt in your rotation, then you are doing something wrong. I have had zero threat problems in Hard Mode Scum and Villiany with PT dps pulling close to 3k.
Same goes with Backhand. It is a great threat ability off cooldown, but it is not nescessary anymore.
People forget that Force Scream is a mini cooldown and should not nescessarily be used off cooldown.
Force Choke, Ravage, Force Push, Vicious Slash, Vicious Throw, and Backhand are all filler abilities that are used based on your rage pool.

As for AoE pulls that are not melee or AoE damage based:

Threatening Scream > Saber Reflect > AFK

The 12 sec rotation, rage reduction on our main abilities, and increased damage/threat output have completely changed the Jugg/Guard tank to be viable over other tanks in various situations.

jedimasterjac's Avatar


jedimasterjac
03.31.2013 , 09:44 AM | #6
I'm just going to share my opinion.

I'm a lefty, don't keybind, because it's quite difficult being lefthanded. (Though I have gotten some suggestions.)

I recently have tanked EV and KP perfectly fine with no set rotation/ key binds. It just takes knowing your abilities and such. Just interrupt, interrupt, interrupt.
Quote: Originally Posted by Lord Governor Charleston
You will shoot your enemy once, to ensure he fights no more that day! You will shoot traitors twice, to ensure nothing less than their deserved death!

GalenMourne's Avatar


GalenMourne
04.01.2013 , 07:12 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by twosixnineone View Post
I would not use Sundering Assault after Smash. You need to hit the target with Crushing Blow ASAP. Opening should be:

Saber Throw > Charge > Smash > Crushing Blow > Sundering Assault
This was an opening setup. It had an order for a reason. I said Sundering or enrage to set up rage for whole opening, not stacks. Putting sundering in is to set up your rotation for the entire fight by having your rage builder right before crushing blow. Enrage being used is the better option because it is off the global cooldown, and then saving sundering for when crushing blow comes off cooldown. I wrote my post expecting that people where smart and could figure out what to fill in where. It was also set to maximize threat in the beginning when dps are most likely to pull off you.


Quote: Originally Posted by twosixnineone View Post
You do not need to stack Smash and Sundering Assault anymore for armor debuff.
See above

Quote: Originally Posted by twosixnineone View Post
Retaliation should be used whenever it is up. It should not be part of your rotation.
I was giving an opening order. And or course retaliation should be used when its up. What i posted is 100% correct since crushing blow procs retaliation.

Quote: Originally Posted by twosixnineone View Post
If you are using Taunt in your rotation, then you are doing something wrong. I have had zero threat problems in
Hard Mode Scum and Villiany with PT dps pulling close to 3k.
Again i discussed an opening setup. Taunting in the beginning to increase threat is smart. And taunt is your most powerful threat tool, and it cost nothing. I never said taunt on cooldown, but if you feel you have to insult people to feel special you keep on doing that.

Quote: Originally Posted by twosixnineone View Post
Same goes with Backhand. It is a great threat ability off cooldown, but it is not nescessary anymore.
Here you go again telling people not to use a threat tool because it is unnecessary. Doesn't matter how insignificant the threat is on it, it is free.

Quote: Originally Posted by twosixnineone View Post
People forget that Force Scream is a mini cooldown and should not nescessarily be used off cooldown.
Putting 6 seconds between smash and scream maximizes revenge stacks for rage management. i use it roughly every 12 secs, not as a mini cooldown. Depending on a boss there are points where it is best used to help mitigate, but to hold back on it is stupid and is increasing the damage you take over the whole fight.

Quote: Originally Posted by twosixnineone View Post
Force Choke, Ravage, Force Push, Vicious Slash, Vicious Throw, and Backhand are all filler abilities that are used based on your rage pool.
Thank you for educating me on what my class fillers are, i wouldn't have known otherwise. Such a big help.
"You know spies, a bunch of *****y little girls!"

LarryRow's Avatar


LarryRow
04.04.2013 , 10:25 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by GalenMourne View Post
Taunting in the beginning to increase threat is smart. And taunt is your most powerful threat tool, and it cost nothing.
Unless there is a tank swap early in the fight, like Toth/Zorn. Burning all your high threat attacks and then taunt fluffing your threat might leave you up the creek sans paddle when the swap comes. It's a good idea to work taunt out of rotations whenever possible.

You make some really great points otherwise, and normally I wouldn't have said anything, but you were just such a monumental douche to this guy.
A classic sig that should not be lost:
Quote:
Stunned , pew pew hack slash , stunned , running backward circles, stunned cannot move, pew pew, break stun, 30 second snare, wha?!?!!? stunned, knockdown, ...less stun more pew pew and hacknslash please.

LarryRow's Avatar


LarryRow
04.04.2013 , 10:28 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Caedes View Post
Hello Tanking Community,
OP, your rotation looks fine. Make sure you are guarding the right dps, and the other guys are using their threat drops. It sounds like you have some very eager, bursty dps who don't understand how or why to throttle back, especially at the beginning of a fight. Make sure they are giving you a few seconds.
A classic sig that should not be lost:
Quote:
Stunned , pew pew hack slash , stunned , running backward circles, stunned cannot move, pew pew, break stun, 30 second snare, wha?!?!!? stunned, knockdown, ...less stun more pew pew and hacknslash please.

verkerk's Avatar


verkerk
04.15.2013 , 03:37 AM | #10
Saber throw, Leap(for focus), Hilt strike(hight treath move), Sundering strike(armor debuff), Guardian slash(in use with the armor debuff guardian slash becomes an hight treath ability), Taunt+Riposte+Bladestorm(Taunt and Riposte are not on thee global cooldown so you can use them at the same time. Also using your taunt after some hight treath ability's will tauntboost you.), Sweep/smash(reduced accuracy).
Damek
Rebel Dream
ToFN