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Revan, Surik, Malak(redeemed) vs The Emperor, The Emperor's Wrath, Scourge.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Revan, Surik, Malak(redeemed) vs The Emperor, The Emperor's Wrath, Scourge.

Ventessel's Avatar


Ventessel
02.28.2013 , 10:56 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by MyDarkSunshine View Post
Stuck to the three vs three versus model for fairness, but Vent I like your idea and if allowed it'd certainly make things easier for the heroes (as well as make sense from a story perspective).

To win this fight (as in, survive until help arrives) Revan needs to close the distance and engage The Emperor at point blank range with a lightsaber, a method of combat The Emperor is far less skilled in. If Revan can get, and stay, in The Emperor's face he will survive. However if he tries like last time to meet The Emperor on the latter's own terms, absorbing and redirecting Force powers, he will fall.

Unfortunately you might be right here. It depends whether or not, in the heat of the moment, they respond to logic or emotion. Logically they should help each other, quickly dispatching the weaker foe before moving onto challenge the more powerful enemy; both are skilled tacticians and would probably be capable of ascertaining this fact.
(Cut your post down to bare bones for the sake of brevity)

It's good that you're considering this in detail, but I don't think that things will match up the way you're looking at it. Remember, Revan is the most senior of the Jedi, and is a brilliant strategist. He will likely define their strategy before they enter the battle, and Malak and Exile will have the discipline to execute it, even in the heat of battle, if they've been properly briefed beforehand. Remember, this isn't their first rodeo, they've both served under Revan in battle for a long time.

The Emperor should not be engaged until last, as he is the most powerful and difficult to kill. The appropriate strategy would be to dance around him, using his allies as an obstruction to his lightning/LOS while Revan ties up Wrath in melee and Malak/Exile kill Scourge (who won't stand up to them in close combat for more than a few moments). Then Revan could trade Wrath off to Malak/Evil and dance with Vitiate until all three of them are ready to engage him for the final confrontation.

You are right that the proper way to deal with the Emperor is to crowd him, keep him off balance and unable to deploy his force powers to maximum effect.
The Heir to ChaosAdded Chapter Sixteen-- 17 APR 2013
“People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.” ~ George Orwell

Ventessel's Avatar


Ventessel
02.28.2013 , 10:59 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by MyDarkSunshine View Post
I'm not quite sure three Jedi/Sith with lightsabers would form up the same as infantry men with bayonets, however you raise a good point: this fight need not be set as three individual one vs ones, but will likely become more fluid.
The bayonet drills simply form the groundwork for teaching more complex strategy later on. Everything starts at the basic level, as Carl von Clausewitz (considered the founder of modern military thought) said, "War is a duel writ large". You apply the same basic principles to any fight, no matter what the scale.

Naturally, a real engagement is far more fluid than a simple lineup, but we aren't dealing with any three Jedi. All of them have held military commands, and Revan is known to have been brilliant on the battlefield. As far as I know, neither Scourge nor Wrath are much for strategy (Scourge is manipulative and sneaky, but not a tactician).
The Heir to ChaosAdded Chapter Sixteen-- 17 APR 2013
“People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.” ~ George Orwell

fellblade's Avatar


fellblade
02.28.2013 , 11:03 AM | #23
Is the Wrath in this scenario Your ( Swtor Player Character) Sith Warrior?
Quote: Originally Posted by Barringer View Post
Tulak Hord is only an unknown because he killed anyone that has ever seen him fight.

LadyKulvax's Avatar


LadyKulvax
02.28.2013 , 11:05 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by fellblade View Post
Is the Wrath in this scenario Your ( Swtor Player Character) Sith Warrior?
The canon Sith Warrior, known as the Emperor's Wrath whom is Dark Side, he/she has no 'advanced class' the only thing going for them is the achievements and feats they gained canonically in a 100% Dark Side playthrough.
I am the Battlemaster of the Jedi Order. I've struck you down once already. Today, I'm finishing the job.
Jedi Order

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
02.28.2013 , 11:11 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by LadyKulvax View Post
The canon Sith Warrior, known as the Emperor's Wrath whom is Dark Side, he/she has no 'advanced class' the only thing going for them is the achievements and feats they gained canonically in a 100% Dark Side playthrough.
They already gave out canon info on the SWTOR characters?
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

LadyKulvax's Avatar


LadyKulvax
02.28.2013 , 11:15 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
They already gave out canon info on the SWTOR characters?
No but for the sake of our sanity, BiOWare suggested to make Republic chars Light Side and Imperials Dark Side for canon till they retcon it, was good enough for Wookieepedia, good enough for me.
I am the Battlemaster of the Jedi Order. I've struck you down once already. Today, I'm finishing the job.
Jedi Order

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
02.28.2013 , 11:18 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by LadyKulvax View Post
No but for the sake of our sanity, BiOWare suggested to make Republic chars Light Side and Imperials Dark Side for canon till they retcon it, was good enough for Wookieepedia, good enough for me.
Ah ok, though it would be interesting to have a mix on each faction.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
02.28.2013 , 12:11 PM | #28
Personally, I find the winner easy to determine. I think Revan and company will win.

No doubt Revan and the Emperor will be battling while Surik and Alek duel the others. I don't think Revan can handle the Emperor alone, but I think he can last long enough for the others to come help him.

Alek should be able to contend with Scourge, and I think Meetra can defeat the Wrath. Maybe not even defeat him/her. I think she could use Dun Moch and tell him/her what the Emperor plans to do, thus turning him/her against the Emperor. What Sith would want to be killed so their master can rule forever?

Then we have a 4 v 2. The (now former) Wrath can join Alek to kill Scourge and Meetra can help Revan fight the Emperor. Then we come down to a 4 v 1, and I don't think the Emperor can beat those odds.
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

fellblade's Avatar


fellblade
02.28.2013 , 12:55 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by LadyKulvax View Post
The canon Sith Warrior, known as the Emperor's Wrath whom is Dark Side, he/she has no 'advanced class' the only thing going for them is the achievements and feats they gained canonically in a 100% Dark Side playthrough.
I would probably go for Revan, Surik and Malak in this case....
Although, I do believe that 3 vs 3 is far too small scale for Revan's Battlefield Strategy - Especially as his 'strategy' did seem to consist of outnumbering your foe and having nigh-unlimited resources to call upon...
But to be fair to Revan - Malak still managed to lose with the same resources so he is definitely better than some.....

However, This is a case where there is not enough solid Canon for me to go on to make a really informed decision
Not having an 'Advanced Class' is kind of restrictive for the Wrath and may be what makes the difference to my decision - The Wrath with an 'Advanced class' and Solidly outlined Skills - I might well be inclined to change my mind......And so may others....

Also, as someone alluded to earlier The 3 matchups might not pair up as you are assuming - especially if the Empire team takes the initiative... I would say that there is strong evidence that the Emperor is the Combatant here that can take down a foe the quickest and could feasably Disable Malak, Or Surik with 1 lightning blast if that Sith (Lord (Lady) was able to do this to Surik and Scourge and the Emperor is a lot more powerful than her) - The Emperor may be able to make this a 3 vs 2 and then 3 vs 1 quite quickly......maybe Scourge could be taken out Quickly by the other side - but the Wrath is again is the X Factor (and as a Player Character - may canonically end up being on the Level of Revan or maybe even greater when things are finally fleshed out...) At the Very least I would say that the Wrath would probably Surpass Malak and Rival Revan and Surik (but without solid canon - I admit that this is my opinion)

Damn, You guys must hate me.......I must seem like I'm always being difficult on purpose - I promise I'm not - but I do really like to know as much solid facts as possible before I can really give an honest opinion.
Quote: Originally Posted by Barringer View Post
Tulak Hord is only an unknown because he killed anyone that has ever seen him fight.

Spartanik's Avatar


Spartanik
02.28.2013 , 02:31 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by _biddan_ View Post
it's like saying:
who would win between 3 ants and 3 lions?
malak would go down first,followed by surik and then the wrath would choke revan to death.
then the wrath would kill both scourge and the emperor becoming the new emperor.
i love happy endings.
I only see one lion there and its the emperor. scourge and the wrath pales in comparison to surik or revan and even malak.

Quote:
Alek should be able to contend with Scourge, and I think Meetra can defeat the Wrath. Maybe not even defeat him/her. I think she could use Dun Moch and tell him/her what the Emperor plans to do, thus turning him/her against the Emperor. What Sith would want to be killed so their master can rule forever?
I think both scourge and wrath would have reasons to join with surik/revan and malak then to keep fighting the emperor.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
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