Jump to content

Revan, Surik, Malak(redeemed) vs The Emperor, The Emperor's Wrath, Scourge.


LadyKulvax

Recommended Posts

A whole lot of spoilers here, so watch it.

 

Yeh I went there, All of these characters in their prime.

 

Now let me set my epic fantasy ending up the way I'd love it to be:

 

Malak, now Alek, a redeemed Dark Lord of the Sith was rebuilt slowly by the machines of what is left of the Star Forge above Lehon, with the guidance of Surik she takes him back to known space, more specifically to Revan who has escaped the Foundry whilst also tricking the Empire into believing he's dead, Surik through her enlightened power combined with the power of Revan and Alek, she rebuilds her own body through the force(Totally stole that from Exar Kun).

 

Now they have a perfect chance, all three of them are 'dead' as far as the galaxy goes, with the failure of the Hero of Tython the Emperor has returned and regained his strength, Scourge has returned to his side believing his Lord Emperor to be truly immortal and the Republic is digging it's heels due to the renewed assaults by the reinvigorated Empire led by all the new powers.

 

With the heroes of the Republic engaged with the heroes of the Empire, Jedi Master Revan with the Exile and his old friend takes the journey to Dromund Kaas for the third time, this is the last hope for galaxy.

 

Revan, Alek and Surik must take down the Emperor, his Wrath and Lord Scourge or the galaxy is doomed to die.

 

I know what some are thinking, if the Emperor gets beaten he can just escape to a new body, well not if the three powerful Jedi raise a Wall of Light and sever his connection, which is how this battle ends if it goes the Jedi's way.

Edited by LadyKulvax
Link to comment
Share on other sites

it's like saying:

who would win between 3 ants and 3 lions?

malak would go down first,followed by surik and then the wrath would choke revan to death.

then the wrath would kill both scourge and the emperor becoming the new emperor.

i love happy endings.

Edited by _biddan_
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting. I'd see them 'pairing' like this initially: Revan against The Emperor, The Exile against The Wrath, and Malak against Scourge. In my mind, the entire battle hinges on the fight between The Exile and The Wrath. Scourge will probably defeat Malak in the long run, but Revan can hold against The Emperor for a time (he's done so before). The winner of The Exile and The Wrath would be free to intervene in first the Malak vs Scourge encounter, and then bring themself and their ally against ether Revan or The Emperor.

 

So, of these two combatants, who has the upper hand? The Wrath is an impressive saber combatant, fueled by the intense energies of the dark side and capable of bringing havoc and ruin to all his/her foes. Believed to be stronger/feared by those of the Dark Council, The Wrath poses a serious threat to The Exile who has been defeated by one of their number before. However The Exile is no push over, skilled with a lightsaber and possessing a vast knowledge of the light side of The Force she has taken on beings of the dark side that could consume worlds and become immortal. It is this knowledge of the Force and the powers it brings that make me believe she would be the victor here: using her unique abilities she could undermine The Wrath's connection to the dark side and bolster her own abilities with Force enlightenment, allowing her to go head to head with The Wrath in saber combat and leave the victor.

 

Once that is done, she need only pay Scourge back for his betrayal, and regardless of whether or not she is in time to save Malak move on to face The Emperor. It might actually be preferable Malak lose in his fight to Scourge, for his mind and will are less tested against The Emperor's mind control and whereas Revan and The Exile can resist it, Malak might simply be forced to submit and change sides; reverting to his cruel, aggressive dark side persona. Whether three against one, two against one or three against two, the next stage of this battle is far from certain.

 

It was unsure whether or not a combined team of Revan, The Exile and Scourge could defeat The Emperor, and Malak is arguably weaker than the former Wrath. By now Revan will be growing weak, having survived the onslaught of The Emperor for as long as was needed for his allies to arrive, he is likely to be drawing on his last reserves, albeit still determined to finally end this threat to the galaxy. Malak would be unwise to challenge The Emperor head on, however it is the only method in which he stands a chance of victory: him and Revan need to keep close to The Emperor, forcing him to fight on their terms (in lightsaber combat) and not utilize his vast array of dark side powers. They also need to keep him distracted from The Exile, the true threat to his ascension, whilst she begins to weaken his connection to the dark side and build the wall of light.

 

Assuming they can manage that, and assuming The Exile would indeed beat The Wrath, The Emperor might finally meet his demise.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting. I'd see them 'pairing' like this initially: Revan against The Emperor, The Exile against The Wrath, and Malak against Scourge. In my mind, the entire battle hinges on the fight between The Exile and The Wrath. Scourge will probably defeat Malak in the long run, but Revan can hold against The Emperor for a time (he's done so before). The winner of The Exile and The Wrath would be free to intervene in first the Malak vs Scourge encounter, and then bring themself and their ally against ether Revan or The Emperor.

 

So, of these two combatants, who has the upper hand? The Wrath is an impressive saber combatant, fueled by the intense energies of the dark side and capable of bringing havoc and ruin to all his/her foes. Believed to be stronger/feared by those of the Dark Council, The Wrath poses a serious threat to The Exile who has been defeated by one of their number before. However The Exile is no push over, skilled with a lightsaber and possessing a vast knowledge of the light side of The Force she has taken on beings of the dark side that could consume worlds and become immortal. It is this knowledge of the Force and the powers it brings that make me believe she would be the victor here: using her unique abilities she could undermine The Wrath's connection to the dark side and bolster her own abilities with Force enlightenment, allowing her to go head to head with The Wrath in saber combat and leave the victor.

 

Once that is done, she need only pay Scourge back for his betrayal, and regardless of whether or not she is in time to save Malak move on to face The Emperor. It might actually be preferable Malak lose in his fight to Scourge, for his mind and will are less tested against The Emperor's mind control and whereas Revan and The Exile can resist it, Malak might simply be forced to submit and change sides; reverting to his cruel, aggressive dark side persona. Whether three against one, two against one or three against two, the next stage of this battle is far from certain.

 

It was unsure whether or not a combined team of Revan, The Exile and Scourge could defeat The Emperor, and Malak is arguably weaker than the former Wrath. By now Revan will be growing weak, having survived the onslaught of The Emperor for as long as was needed for his allies to arrive, he is likely to be drawing on his last reserves, albeit still determined to finally end this threat to the galaxy. Malak would be unwise to challenge The Emperor head on, however it is the only method in which he stands a chance of victory: him and Revan need to keep close to The Emperor, forcing him to fight on their terms (in lightsaber combat) and not utilize his vast array of dark side powers. They also need to keep him distracted from The Exile, the true threat to his ascension, whilst she begins to weaken his connection to the dark side and build the wall of light.

 

Assuming they can manage that, and assuming The Exile would indeed beat The Wrath, The Emperor might finally meet his demise.

 

woah woah woah slow down,what if i put this condition:

the wrath is secretely a follower of the light side,BUT,he can't join revan?

 

Have anything constructive to add to this debate or...... ?

 

the forceeeeee

Edited by _biddan_
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Difficult situation.

 

If, out of hand, we are to assume that the Emperor has not recovered sufficient strength to be able to curb stomp Revan/Jedi Exile again, there's a fighting chance.

 

Scourge is kind of a sissy, so taking him out would be the first step to an offensive operation. Make it look like he was killed in a powerplay by another Sith Lord or member of the Dark council before moving against the Emperor himself.

 

When redeemed, does Malak have an equivalent level of power to what he had as a Sith Lord? If so, he should be an even match for the Emperor's Wrath. If he engages the Emperor's Wrath in melee combat, Revan and the Jedi Exile can once more contend with the Emperor.

 

However, this leaves much to chance. If Revan believes he can delay the Emperor long enough for the Jedi Exile and Malak to murder the **** out of the Emperor's Wrath (let's face it, 2 vs. 1, that boy's gonna die.) Then it would be a matter of the three heroes engaging the Emperor... where they might just triumph.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

*Snip*

 

Well done, but just to quickly intervene here, Malak is NOT a pushover and the likelihood that Scourge could take Malak one on one is rather low, Malak is considered one of the best duellists of his age and was considered very proficient in the Force, he took on Revan in what was arguably his prime, through a very prolonged and tough duel.

 

During his time as a Jedi, Malak was trained as a Jedi Guardian, focusing on lightsaber combat and physical aspects of the Force. Eventually, Darth Malak came to be counted among the skilled swordsmen of his time. In combat, he fought in a one-handed, aggressive style. During his torture sessions at the hands of Demagol on Flashpoint Station, Alek used the Force to block the pain that Demagol caused him. As a Jedi, Malak used the Force as a means of protection and healing. During his later reign as a Sith Lord, Malak employed the Force to choke more than one person at a time. Before his final duel with Revan, Malak demonstrated this ability to the former Sith Lord, simultaneously choking two of the Jedi that he had captured. Immediately after, the Dark Lord exemplified his skills by throwing and plunging his lightsaber into the chest of one of the captured Jedi. Malak's strength with the Force enabled him to create a whirlwind of Force energy that would encircle his victim, and he also possessed the ability to create a stasis field with the Force that he used to freeze his enemies in place. He was proficient in using the Force to augment his speed and to suppress the abilities of another Force user. Malak was able to render himself virtually invulnerable to most Force powers for a limited amount of time, and was additionally capable of leaping large distances in order to reach his enemy.

Darth Malak was able to amplify his screams, triggering shock waves that rippled through the Force. He also used the Force to tap into his innermost fears, pain, and hate and convert them into intense anger, which could be channeled to increase his speed, strength, and ferocity. Malak's connection to the dark side gave him the use of Dark Healing, an ability that fueled one's regenerative processes by draining the life force of another. He was skilled in the use of Sith sorcery. During his time as a Sith, Malak was proficient in Force lightning, which he used with ease while torturing Bastila Shan and while dueling Revan aboard the Star Forge.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Difficult situation.

 

If, out of hand, we are to assume that the Emperor has not recovered sufficient strength to be able to curb stomp Revan/Jedi Exile again, there's a fighting chance.

 

Scourge is kind of a sissy, so taking him out would be the first step to an offensive operation. Make it look like he was killed in a powerplay by another Sith Lord or member of the Dark council before moving against the Emperor himself.

 

When redeemed, does Malak have an equivalent level of power to what he had as a Sith Lord? If so, he should be an even match for the Emperor's Wrath. If he engages the Emperor's Wrath in melee combat, Revan and the Jedi Exile can once more contend with the Emperor.

 

However, this leaves much to chance. If Revan believes he can delay the Emperor long enough for the Jedi Exile and Malak to murder the **** out of the Emperor's Wrath (let's face it, 2 vs. 1, that boy's gonna die.) Then it would be a matter of the three heroes engaging the Emperor... where they might just triumph.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well done, but just to quickly intervene here, Malak is NOT a pushover and the likelihood that Scourge could take Malak one on one is rather low, Malak is considered one of the best duellists of his age and was considered very proficient in the Force, he took on Revan in what was arguably his prime, through a very prolonged and tough duel.

 

Then the battle swings even more in the heroes favour. I'll confess, my knowledge of Malak is somewhat limited (aside from the KotOR games - in which he was a pushover), so underestimating him was a tad quick of the mark. If he can beat Scourge he can help The Exile against The Wrath, ensuring victory on her part.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Remember that and let's assume here that Revan goes straight for Vitiate, Revan just cannot take the Emperor alone, the longer it takes for the Exile and Alek to take down their opponents, if they can that is, remember the Wrath is one tough cookie, the more likely Revan is dead by the time they get there.

 

Then again, who says the Exile or Alek immediately chooses to go and help the other, what if they decide to move on and help Revan?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Then the battle swings even more in the heroes favour. I'll confess, my knowledge of Malak is somewhat limited (aside from the KotOR games - in which he was a pushover), so underestimating him was a tad quick of the mark. If he can beat Scourge he can help The Exile against The Wrath, ensuring victory on her part.

 

Why make it 3 on 3 to start with? The Jedi have the initiative here, they're picking the time and place of the engagement. After their arrival on Dromund Kaas, Scourge should be murdered so it looks like the other Sith Lords are just angling for his position. Before anyone really sorts things out, the Jedi move against the Emperor.

 

It seems safe to assume that Vitiate will keep his Wrath nearby, so they'll have to be taken together.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why make it 3 on 3 to start with? The Jedi have the initiative here, they're picking the time and place of the engagement. After their arrival on Dromund Kaas, Scourge should be murdered so it looks like the other Sith Lords are just angling for his position. Before anyone really sorts things out, the Jedi move against the Emperor.

 

It seems safe to assume that Vitiate will keep his Wrath nearby, so they'll have to be taken together.

 

I purposefully made the angle when I was thinking about this that the Emperor is probably going to want to keep the Wrath and Scourge by his side pretty much all the time, he's paranoid as hell after the whole Jedi Knight clash, Scourge is with the Emperor and his Wrath for this battle.

 

(Basically, it would be totally unfair to the Sith debate to have one of them knocked off before it even starts.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I purposefully made the angle when I was thinking about this that the Emperor is probably going to want to keep the Wrath and Scourge by his side pretty much all the time, he's paranoid as hell after the whole Jedi Knight clash, Scourge is with the Emperor and his Wrath for this battle.

 

(Basically, it would be totally unfair to the Sith debate to have one of them knocked off before it even starts.)

 

I'm not saying it's fair. You don't fight fair unless you have to, and then you just run away and come back later.

 

Revan is a master strategist, he's going to want to stack the deck as much as possible. Scourge and the Wrath can't both hang around the Emperor forever, and Jedi are in no hurry. Everyone thinks they're dead, so they just bide their time until they can pick off Scourge. After all, eventually Vitiate will send him to get a latte or something (that's pretty much all he's good for, right?) and then -- WHAMMO! Malak hits him with stasis, Exile messes with his force connection, and Revan carves him up like a Christmas ham.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not saying it's fair. You don't fight fair unless you have to, and then you just run away and come back later.

 

Revan is a master strategist, he's going to want to stack the deck as much as possible. Scourge and the Wrath can't both hang around the Emperor forever, and Jedi are in no hurry. Everyone thinks they're dead, so they just bide their time until they can pick off Scourge. After all, eventually Vitiate will send him to get a latte or something (that's pretty much all he's good for, right?) and then -- WHAMMO! Malak hits him with stasis, Exile messes with his force connection, and Revan carves him up like a Christmas ham.

 

I like your way of thinking, but in all truthfulness I only threw in a bit of story so it made sense, this isn't like a Kaggath or anything, this is 3 vs 3 in the Emperor's Throne Room, that's it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like your way of thinking, but in all truthfulness I only threw in a bit of story so it made sense, this isn't like a Kaggath or anything, this is 3 vs 3 in the Emperor's Throne Room, that's it.

 

Very well, then we'll treat it as a 3 vs. 3, and not let it become (1 vs. 1) x3 if you understand me.

 

A basic situation you confront soldiers with in training is a mixed bayonet/hand to hand drill. You start with 1 vs 1, which is simply, you outflank and attempt to kill the other guy.

 

1 vs. 2 is more complicated, you have to keep one guy between yourself and the other, and kill them individually.

 

2 vs 2 is just the same as 1 vs 1, but the winner gets to help his buddy kill the last guy.

 

3 vs 3 is a whole other game, however. In this situation, the best maneuver is to have 2 combatants move against a single adversary while 1 guy gets into a 1 vs 1 with the furthest enemy to either flank. The trick is to always keep one of the enemy's from having a clear shot to get into the fray with you until your two guys have killed one of theirs, and then it's 2 vs 1 and 1 vs 1, which will rapidly boil downt o 3 vs 1.

 

So it becomes a battle of maneuver, not necessarily raw power and skill. And Revan will know this, and prepare his allies to fight accordingly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Stuck to the three vs three versus model for fairness, but Vent I like your idea and if allowed it'd certainly make things easier for the heroes (as well as make sense from a story perspective).

 

Remember that and let's assume here that Revan goes straight for Vitiate, Revan just cannot take the Emperor alone, the longer it takes for the Exile and Alek to take down their opponents, if they can that is, remember the Wrath is one tough cookie, the more likely Revan is dead by the time they get there.

 

You're right, Revan would eventually fall to The Emperor. The question is how long he could last. Given he's already encountered The Emperor in a one on one fight before, lasting long enough for his allies to defeat the guards and seal the doors, it is reasonable to assume he can manage to hold for at least a short duration again. He's also far more likely to play defensive, or rather offensive (as the best defense), as it is the best way to survive against The Emperor, given he knows he cannot win given his previous defeat and that he need only last until his allies arrive to gain the advantage. On the other hand The Emperor knows now not to underestimate Revan, and will likely attempt to barrage him with powerful blasts of lightning like last time in the hopes of overwhelming Revan's defenses.

 

To win this fight (as in, survive until help arrives) Revan needs to close the distance and engage The Emperor at point blank range with a lightsaber, a method of combat The Emperor is far less skilled in. If Revan can get, and stay, in The Emperor's face he will survive. However if he tries like last time to meet The Emperor on the latter's own terms, absorbing and redirecting Force powers, he will fall.

 

Then again, who says the Exile or Alek immediately chooses to go and help the other, what if they decide to move on and help Revan?

 

Unfortunately you might be right here. It depends whether or not, in the heat of the moment, they respond to logic or emotion. Logically they should help each other, quickly dispatching the weaker foe before moving onto challenge the more powerful enemy; both are skilled tacticians and would probably be capable of ascertaining this fact.

 

However The Exile has previously shown, where Revan is concerned, a willingness to avoid the chance of victory to save a friend. It is entirely plausible, likely even, she would move straight to assist in the battle against The Emperor as she would also know it is a battle Revan cannot win alone. Whilst, if Malak is capable of defeating Scourge, this will not completely undermine their chances of winning it will bring The Emperor's attention to The Exile, making it more difficult for her to undermine his power and (when needed) erect a wall of light.

 

On the other hand if Malak wins first, and seeks to assist Revan instead of The Exile, this removes certainty from the latter's victory. The Wrath, as stated, is one tough cookie: whilst The Exile would likely win it will take time, time which The Emperor could use to defeat both Revan and Malak.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 vs 3 is a whole other game, however. In this situation, the best maneuver is to have 2 combatants move against a single adversary while 1 guy gets into a 1 vs 1 with the furthest enemy to either flank. The trick is to always keep one of the enemy's from having a clear shot to get into the fray with you until your two guys have killed one of theirs, and then it's 2 vs 1 and 1 vs 1, which will rapidly boil downt o 3 vs 1.

 

So it becomes a battle of maneuver, not necessarily raw power and skill. And Revan will know this, and prepare his allies to fight accordingly.

 

I'm not quite sure three Jedi/Sith with lightsabers would form up the same as infantry men with bayonets, however you raise a good point: this fight need not be set as three individual one vs ones, but will likely become more fluid.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Stuck to the three vs three versus model for fairness, but Vent I like your idea and if allowed it'd certainly make things easier for the heroes (as well as make sense from a story perspective).

 

To win this fight (as in, survive until help arrives) Revan needs to close the distance and engage The Emperor at point blank range with a lightsaber, a method of combat The Emperor is far less skilled in. If Revan can get, and stay, in The Emperor's face he will survive. However if he tries like last time to meet The Emperor on the latter's own terms, absorbing and redirecting Force powers, he will fall.

 

Unfortunately you might be right here. It depends whether or not, in the heat of the moment, they respond to logic or emotion. Logically they should help each other, quickly dispatching the weaker foe before moving onto challenge the more powerful enemy; both are skilled tacticians and would probably be capable of ascertaining this fact.

(Cut your post down to bare bones for the sake of brevity)

 

It's good that you're considering this in detail, but I don't think that things will match up the way you're looking at it. Remember, Revan is the most senior of the Jedi, and is a brilliant strategist. He will likely define their strategy before they enter the battle, and Malak and Exile will have the discipline to execute it, even in the heat of battle, if they've been properly briefed beforehand. Remember, this isn't their first rodeo, they've both served under Revan in battle for a long time.

 

The Emperor should not be engaged until last, as he is the most powerful and difficult to kill. The appropriate strategy would be to dance around him, using his allies as an obstruction to his lightning/LOS while Revan ties up Wrath in melee and Malak/Exile kill Scourge (who won't stand up to them in close combat for more than a few moments). Then Revan could trade Wrath off to Malak/Evil and dance with Vitiate until all three of them are ready to engage him for the final confrontation.

 

You are right that the proper way to deal with the Emperor is to crowd him, keep him off balance and unable to deploy his force powers to maximum effect.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not quite sure three Jedi/Sith with lightsabers would form up the same as infantry men with bayonets, however you raise a good point: this fight need not be set as three individual one vs ones, but will likely become more fluid.

 

The bayonet drills simply form the groundwork for teaching more complex strategy later on. Everything starts at the basic level, as Carl von Clausewitz (considered the founder of modern military thought) said, "War is a duel writ large". You apply the same basic principles to any fight, no matter what the scale.

 

Naturally, a real engagement is far more fluid than a simple lineup, but we aren't dealing with any three Jedi. All of them have held military commands, and Revan is known to have been brilliant on the battlefield. As far as I know, neither Scourge nor Wrath are much for strategy (Scourge is manipulative and sneaky, but not a tactician).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is the Wrath in this scenario Your ( Swtor Player Character) Sith Warrior?

 

The canon Sith Warrior, known as the Emperor's Wrath whom is Dark Side, he/she has no 'advanced class' the only thing going for them is the achievements and feats they gained canonically in a 100% Dark Side playthrough.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...