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Nothing much changes in 3000 years?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Nothing much changes in 3000 years?

LizardSF's Avatar


LizardSF
12.20.2011 , 02:19 PM | #1
So... nothing much changes in 3000 years?

As I understand it, the Old Republic era is about 3000 years prior to the battle of Yaavin/the original movies.

The spacecraft, droids, weapons, and even clothing and hairstyles barely look any different.

The hutts are all corrupt gangsters in the movie era; they're all corrupt gangsters here. The same races that are dominant 3000 years from now (except the Sith, of course) are dominant now. Whatever a world will be like 3000 years in the future, it's like now.

If one character did something, wore something, or said something in the movies, it seems that it's become a universal trait of their entire race. Every Hutt preserves people in carbonite and has a fetish for humanoid women and a rancor pit. Every Rodian is a sleazy wannabe tough guy.

It's kind of like setting a game in Ancient Rome... except that it's the United States of Rome, which is in a cold war with the Union Of Soviet Socialist Visigoths, and everyone has 9mm automatics, flies in jet planes, and drives a car.

I don't blame Bioware for this; they got their marching orders from Lucasfilms when it comes to creating backstory. It just seems like it's a hell of a missed opportunity. Instead of a Star Wars universe that's almost unrecognizable (maybe droid technology is very primitive, and Tatooine is a lush agricultural world, and races we've never heard of have political dominance while common races like Wookies haven't even been contacted yet), it's pretty much identical to the movie-era universe. About the only reason I see for the Old Republic existing, for gaming purposes, is that it lets there be Jedi everywhere, one of the problems with SWG in terms of being set in the original trilogy era.

This doesn't make the game any less fun or hinder my enjoyment much; I'd just like to know what everyone was doing for 3000 years. No scientists, engineers, or inventors? The same staticy holograms, the same weapon technology, the same types of droids?
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Shadowclaimer's Avatar


Shadowclaimer
12.20.2011 , 02:22 PM | #2
I personally think a series of intergalactic civil wars and trying to maintain solid progress across thousands of worlds causes a stifle in innovation, everyone wants to be like the next and no one innovates because of it really. Ingame it seems like the only innovators are rebels or renegade sith lords.
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Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
12.20.2011 , 02:23 PM | #3
Looks < Function

And ya there are some vast differences in technology such as but not limiting.

Kolto is replaced with Bacta

Medical Droids become smarter and more equipped, as do other droids.

Warships/Military technology becomes far more advanced.

If your telling me an Old Republic Fleet could match up against a Clone, Rebellion, or Empire Fleet I am laughing.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

LizardSF's Avatar


LizardSF
12.20.2011 , 02:29 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Shadowclaimer View Post
I personally think a series of intergalactic civil wars and trying to maintain solid progress across thousands of worlds causes a stifle in innovation, everyone wants to be like the next and no one innovates because of it really. Ingame it seems like the only innovators are rebels or renegade sith lords.
Because history has shown that nothing slows down technological progress like war...

Oh wait...
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Shadowclaimer's Avatar


Shadowclaimer
12.20.2011 , 02:32 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by LizardSF View Post
Because history has shown that nothing slows down technological progress like war...

Oh wait...
History doesn't account for trying to maintain a government that rules thousands of worlds while simultaneously fighting a war either, full planets were wiped of life during these conflicts, who knows what technology was lost and had to be regained/relearned in these time periods.

If I remember right, part of the goal of Archaeologists in this time is dual edged, to learn about the past but also specifically to find lost technology.
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VoxLebard's Avatar


VoxLebard
12.20.2011 , 02:34 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Shadowclaimer View Post
everyone wants to be like the next and no one innovates because of it really.
Kinda like game developers, eh?

As cool as all those things would be, no one would want to play it because most people want to "play the movies".

LizardSF's Avatar


LizardSF
12.20.2011 , 02:35 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
Looks < Function

And ya there are some vast differences in technology such as but not limiting.

Kolto is replaced with Bacta

Medical Droids become smarter and more equipped, as do other droids.

Warships/Military technology becomes far more advanced.

If your telling me an Old Republic Fleet could match up against a Clone, Rebellion, or Empire Fleet I am laughing.
OK, I'll buy that in terms of the background fiction, but how much of it do we see? For example, do we see different fleet strategies or ship types because of inferior weapons, or are the main battle ships noticeably smaller than the Clone-era cruisers? Does anything in-game indicate, "Hey, if this were 3000 years later, you'd have been healed by now"? From a game mechanic perspective, it seems we still have instant healing, the droids don't seem different (to me) from the later era droids, etc. (Caveat: Some of them do look bulkier/larger, which is nice, implying more primitive technology. I guess I'd like to see more obvious things. For example, compare the Star Trek TOS communicators to the Next Gen communicators -- you instantly see, "Hey, this is a LOT more advanced".)

Due mostly to the limits of SFX budgets, the technology of the first movie looks a lot more primitive than the technology of TOR.

Don't get me wrong.... I'm having a lot of fun in the game. I just wish there was more a sense of "This is the distant past of the galaxy". Perhaps I'm asking for something that can't be feasibly done within the constraints of making a playable game; it wouldn't be the first time, and playability must always be the primary concern.
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SeptimusHodge's Avatar


SeptimusHodge
12.20.2011 , 02:35 PM | #8
The reason for this has probably got more to do with creative freedom than with actual consistency of design or fiction. The setting first came up with KOTOR (ten years ago?). It still had to be 'star wars-y' and Lucas still had to sign off on everything, which means including a lot of the token stuff people expect from Star Wars -- but Bioware had the freedom to write their own history and lore rather than rubbing up against any of the movie characters or timelines, which would have meant a lot more restriction on how 'important' anything the main character might do could be.

Star Wars is in pretty desperate need of a reboot, but that won't happen for a while if ever. Until then, Bio probably got away with more than any other company could have. It is a little silly that so much is exactly like it will be in 3000 years, but I can't think of how else they'd have kept even the freedom they do have. This is a Lucas thing, though, not a Bioware thing. I'd bet on it.

Braneric's Avatar


Braneric
12.20.2011 , 02:43 PM | #9
We can presume that incremental advancements were made over the 3000 between TOR and TNH (i.e. hyperdrives in the movies > hyperdrives in TOR), but in addition to what others have said about the various wars that have raged across the galaxy the fact is that technological plateaus do exist. We have been spoiled by the fact that we are living in an era of rapid technological advancement, so it's hard to forget that for about 2000 years humanity used various iterations of essentially the same weapons (spears, axes, swords, etc.). It takes a lot of factors for major advancements in technology to happen, so it's not at all surprising that people are still using lasers and proton torpedoes 3000 years later.

LizardSF's Avatar


LizardSF
12.20.2011 , 02:45 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by SeptimusHodge View Post
The reason for this has probably got more to do with creative freedom than with actual consistency of design or fiction. The setting first came up with KOTOR (ten years ago?). It still had to be 'star wars-y' and Lucas still had to sign off on everything, which means including a lot of the token stuff people expect from Star Wars -- but Bioware had the freedom to write their own history and lore rather than rubbing up against any of the movie characters or timelines, which would have meant a lot more restriction on how 'important' anything the main character might do could be.

Star Wars is in pretty desperate need of a reboot, but that won't happen for a while if ever. Until then, Bio probably got away with more than any other company could have. It is a little silly that so much is exactly like it will be in 3000 years, but I can't think of how else they'd have kept even the freedom they do have. This is a Lucas thing, though, not a Bioware thing. I'd bet on it.
I know people who have worked with SW properties in the past (no one at BW, though), and, yeah, Lucasarts can be a bear to work with when it comes to getting approval. Then Lucas, the man, not the corporation, basically ignores all the backstory other people have created.

I see your point, as well, on "Star Warsyness". It has to be "Star Wars" to the average non-fanboy who just watches the movies: Jedi, lightsabers, wookies, droids. So the degree of difference that's possible while still having an iconic product might be fairly small.
MrLizard.com: All-new material for tabletop RPGs (mostly D&D 4e), occasional rants, and original science fiction and fantasy.
Why the developers haven't fixed that bug yet!
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