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Madness Sin 2.0 as it stands.


Panzerfire's Avatar


Panzerfire
02.24.2013 , 08:11 PM | #11
I'll wait until it hits live to consider going positive or negative on this spec.
First of all, what always annoyed me on live is that Madness specs got rid of their energy so slow without being able to do bursts (Kephess the Undying after a pillar hit, TFB anomalies, Operator between shields, Walker on Kephess) this was both good and bad, good that we had a solid force management and bad that there were few options to do burst dps (Shock would be a loss of dps unless combined with a Force Cloak and Dark Embrace).

Anyway, in 2.0 our only tool for energy management is the 2 set PvE bonus on Saber Strike which is well.. not great.
Although it seems like we'll do lower dps I'd like to raise some points.

First of all the DR curves have been reworked for accuracy/crit/surge, we've recieved a 3% accuracy buff and we will need 110% or close to on Force attacks since ops bosses seem to have a Force/Tech resist chance.

Now then, our dps abilities benefit a lot of from increased crit and crit damage chances.
Thrash has an increased 24% to crit and if it does crit it does 50% more damage.
All dots benefit from 30% crit damage and the lightning charge dot (not discharge!) benefits from a 45% crit bonus.
More deathmarks although with an extra dot on each lightning charge tick (every 1.5s) it won't be consumed solely by Discharge/Crushing Darkness.

It could be these percentage increases will make up for our lack of damage as we get optimized 72 gear, that's my hope at least since base damage has been increased by a lot which will further increase the surge bonus on certain skills.
Also I don't really like the timing of Crushing Darkness, it allows more wiggle room to use priority abilities first (Main 2 dots and Deathfield) but I can't say that it's that great.

Anyway, all of this means nothing if we cannot get a meaningful way to track our dots through the UI, without using obscure add-ons, overriding your discharge/ creeping terror is a good way to lose a lot of dps and force.

randiesel's Avatar


randiesel
02.24.2013 , 10:10 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by spond View Post
I don't know what the devs were thinking with the entire assassin spec.

They've dumbed down madness (and lowered it's dps)

They've brought deception back to pre 1.4 (dropped its burst without giving more sustained dps)

At this point, might as well roll mara's and just completely trash the non tanking assassin specs.

Mara's have always done more dps and been less difficult to play.

I just don't get what the developers are trying to do.

This honestly, may end up the walking away point for me...... I don't know.....
I know I'll get flamed as a noob for asking, but how did they nerf deception burst exactly? Yeah, Duplicity got moved up (not earth shattering), but Induction went from +30% crit dmg on Maul to +100% crit dmg on Maul, and not to mention Assassin's Mark with +6% Maul dmg increase.

I'm not a seasoned veteran with my Shadow, but its amazing how much more survivability a Decep Sin has over a Concealment Op and you guys are crying out that this is the end of the road.

Idk if this is PvE or PvP directed mostly, but you still have way more tools at your disposal than a dps Op of any spec in PvP. Again, I'm not a seasoned vet as I'm a recent 50 on my Shadow, although I have had a Sin for a year. But even still, I see a ton of horribly played Sins/Shadows that don't play to even 50% of the class's potential, and I have a feeling some of the negativity is from them.

It could be just me though, since I've moved up from playing a gimped class (Scrapper) for the past year.

DaftVaduhhh's Avatar


DaftVaduhhh
02.24.2013 , 11:02 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by randiesel View Post
I know I'll get flamed as a noob for asking, but how did they nerf deception burst exactly? Yeah, Duplicity got moved up (not earth shattering), but Induction went from +30% crit dmg on Maul to +100% crit dmg on Maul, and not to mention Assassin's Mark with +6% Maul dmg increase.

I'm not a seasoned veteran with my Shadow, but its amazing how much more survivability a Decep Sin has over a Concealment Op and you guys are crying out that this is the end of the road.

Idk if this is PvE or PvP directed mostly, but you still have way more tools at your disposal than a dps Op of any spec in PvP. Again, I'm not a seasoned vet as I'm a recent 50 on my Shadow, although I have had a Sin for a year. But even still, I see a ton of horribly played Sins/Shadows that don't play to even 50% of the class's potential, and I have a feeling some of the negativity is from them.

It could be just me though, since I've moved up from playing a gimped class (Scrapper) for the past year.
The surge bonus on Maul is 30%, the Swtor-Spy tree had some errors in it previously.

The real nerf is taking the additional base damage added to project from VS/CS and turning it into internal damage. Great considering the shield changes, except when you crit...
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paowee's Avatar


paowee
02.25.2013 , 12:15 AM | #14
can you post a parse of your lightning spec fight on the dummy?
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spond's Avatar


spond
02.26.2013 , 01:58 PM | #15
So, I did a little "field" testing today. (finally got my character to transfer).

Couple of things I noticed while fighting section x heroic 2 boss.

First, force does regenerate faster (unassisted by deathmark) overall; however, deathmark force regen allowed me to keep my force up and out of saber strike for almost the whole fight when running shockless.

Second, that 15% damage buff does show in the parce(sp) numbers and in the last part of the fight.

Now, how this compares to other dps classes I have yet to test. The removal of duplicity (by skill tree effect) had hurt. If you could get duplicity at a decent cost, that may solve many of the madness force issues; as it would be a low cost skill to add to the rotation.

But this does not address my main concern with the assassin spec period. Are assassins on pare with other (Mara's in particular) in raids. This is my biggest issue as it appears that this may not be the case. I have more work to do with level 55's.

Griad's Avatar


Griad
02.27.2013 , 01:31 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by randiesel View Post
I know I'll get flamed as a noob for asking, but how did they nerf deception burst exactly? Yeah, Duplicity got moved up (not earth shattering), but Induction went from +30% crit dmg on Maul to +100% crit dmg on Maul, and not to mention Assassin's Mark with +6% Maul dmg increase.

I'm not a seasoned veteran with my Shadow, but its amazing how much more survivability a Decep Sin has over a Concealment Op and you guys are crying out that this is the end of the road.

Idk if this is PvE or PvP directed mostly, but you still have way more tools at your disposal than a dps Op of any spec in PvP. Again, I'm not a seasoned vet as I'm a recent 50 on my Shadow, although I have had a Sin for a year. But even still, I see a ton of horribly played Sins/Shadows that don't play to even 50% of the class's potential, and I have a feeling some of the negativity is from them.

It could be just me though, since I've moved up from playing a gimped class (Scrapper) for the past year.
Have to agree my operative have been rendered useless for along time as i dont like healing, and when i started the toon i had hoped to DPS with it, but no its simply not viable.
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KleinenBlldg's Avatar


KleinenBlldg
02.28.2013 , 07:51 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by randiesel View Post
I know I'll get flamed as a noob for asking, but how did they nerf deception burst exactly? Yeah, Duplicity got moved up (not earth shattering), but Induction went from +30% crit dmg on Maul to +100% crit dmg on Maul, and not to mention Assassin's Mark with +6% Maul dmg increase.

I'm not a seasoned veteran with my Shadow, but its amazing how much more survivability a Decep Sin has over a Concealment Op and you guys are crying out that this is the end of the road.

Idk if this is PvE or PvP directed mostly, but you still have way more tools at your disposal than a dps Op of any spec in PvP. Again, I'm not a seasoned vet as I'm a recent 50 on my Shadow, although I have had a Sin for a year. But even still, I see a ton of horribly played Sins/Shadows that don't play to even 50% of the class's potential, and I have a feeling some of the negativity is from them.

It could be just me though, since I've moved up from playing a gimped class (Scrapper) for the past year.
Quote: Originally Posted by Griad View Post
Have to agree my operative have been rendered useless for along time as i dont like healing, and when i started the toon i had hoped to DPS with it, but no its simply not viable.
Guys this thread is for the madness tree, what you are talking about is the deception tree two very different trees in how they operate. in my opinon deception in 2.0 is a very good tree however madness is almost completly changed from the way it is now.

spond's Avatar


spond
02.28.2013 , 08:20 AM | #18
Well, pts adjustments have come out and nothing to help Madness DPS.

Uggggh

Chiltonium's Avatar


Chiltonium
03.03.2013 , 04:13 PM | #19
Im just leveling my operative to 50 atm after seeing madness on pts. How I'd ever kill a healer now is beyond me.
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HoboWithAStick's Avatar


HoboWithAStick
03.03.2013 , 04:49 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by NotRonin View Post
I think a few skills needs to changed.
They need to swap the 2 around : Lambaste should be in the darkness tree, while the 'spike from front' is move to the lightning tree. So lacerate in darkness becomes a 'AoE self heal', while Madness gets to use maul from anywhere during the proc.
I disagree with that, the only spec that should be able to use a any dirrection maul would be the tank. Duplicity does need to be moved down to the bottem though again so its useable by all specs. Its crazy that you hardly parse higher then what you do on live server, I don't know why bioware feels the need to nerf stealth classes so much. I understand that having someone pop out of stealth in pvp and beating you up is annoying but nerfing the stealthers not only ruins pvp but pve too. Bioware should really have different skill sets for pvp and pve, clearly pvp balance and complaints dictate class balance more then the class vaibility overal.