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Kaggath Tournament Finals - Traya vs G0-T0

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Kaggath Tournament Finals - Traya vs G0-T0

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
03.07.2013 , 10:57 AM | #241
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
For that reason G0-T0 is only allowed the Gand nest already in his employment, the Ubese assassins in his employment, the Red Eclipse and miscellaneous exchange mercenaries. That excludes Mandalorian clans, other Gand other Ubese and any other groups minor or major not associated with the Exchange. I hope you understand my reasoning behind this.
I like how this comes up in the finals when it's been fine everywhere else.

Basically you are saying that underworld character's credits are now useless. Seems fair.
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
03.07.2013 , 11:21 AM | #242
Quote: Originally Posted by Warren-Stride View Post
I like how this comes up in the finals when it's been fine everywhere else.

Basically you are saying that underworld character's credits are now useless. Seems fair.
Where has it been 'fine' anywhere else? There has never been any other reason to bring this up in other debates, although rule that no other prominent powers, allies or assets outside ones powerbase are not allowed has always been a rule... but if you don't respect the rules then *shrug*, there's nothing I can do about that.

And no I am not saying that, not at all. If I did make that the case then I'd ban G0-T0 from using the black market, and I would have banned Xizor from buying up fleets, but I did not and have not done this. I've merely banned G0-T0 from using the assets of another group. In fact I've been especially lenient concerning underworld characters, and several people have complained that its not fair because these combatants can just throw money at their opponents to win and buy whatever the hell they want.

P.S. If you really think I'm manipulating this whole Kaggath so that Traya can win then you severely overestimate my interest it this tournament. You do realise I'm not been paid to do this? And that I don't want to make enemies of everyone on these forums? That I'm not a troll?

EDIT: But perhaps I was being overly restictive, I suppose it is within the rules of the Kaggath that G0-T0 could hire new Gand nests and new Ubese assassins, however no other groups he's had no prior affiliations with.

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
03.07.2013 , 11:42 AM | #243
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
In fact I've been especially lenient concerning underworld characters, and several people have complained that its not fair because these combatants can just throw money at their opponents to win and buy whatever the hell they want.
I feel like a lot of this post is heated and passive-aggressive, so I'm only going to address what is not.

The fact is, that's what underworld characters do. They're not military powers. For the most part, their economical powers. They hire people, they're not factions with loyal-to-the-death soldiers. Large organizations hire other smaller groups to do their dirty work. For credits. Saying that underworld figures are unfair because they can buy what they want is like saying that its unfair for combatants like Revan or Grievous to build ships or droids. It's how they replenish their armies. And the rules do state the arena is the known galaxy. So saying that certain species don't exist is rather silly. There should be an argument about how/why these other people's would help underworld characters. Saying that they are not allowed to hire new people seems to be the easy way out of battling underworld types.

But, as you say, it's the rules. Who am I to argue against them?
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
03.07.2013 , 11:46 AM | #244
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
EDIT: But perhaps I was being overly restictive, I suppose it is within the rules of the Kaggath that G0-T0 could hire new Gand nests and new Ubese assassins, however no other groups he's had no prior affiliations with.
Thank you.
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
03.07.2013 , 01:25 PM | #245
Quote: Originally Posted by Warren-Stride View Post
But, as you say, it's the rules. Who am I to argue against them?
Your free to dispute the rules, I encourage that. And I'd rather you'd have done that in the first place, constructively.

EDIT: I don't want this too put a downer on the debate, so lets just move on.

GarfieldJL's Avatar


GarfieldJL
03.07.2013 , 11:45 PM | #246
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Your free to dispute the rules, I encourage that. And I'd rather you'd have done that in the first place, constructively.

EDIT: I don't want this too put a downer on the debate, so lets just move on.
I do want to point out G0-T0 could simply hire a bunch of people that like credits and don't care don't particularly have self-preservation being high on their priority list.

There are plenty of individuals in the underworld that aren't playing with a full deck.

Heck he could even hire people that like making things go boom, and convince them to go trigger the MSG on Malachor V, cause it'd make a really big boom.

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
03.07.2013 , 11:51 PM | #247
Quote: Originally Posted by GarfieldJL View Post
I do want to point out G0-T0 could simply hire a bunch of people that like credits and don't care don't particularly have self-preservation being high on their priority list.

There are plenty of individuals in the underworld that aren't playing with a full deck.

Heck he could even hire people that like making things go boom, and convince them to go trigger the MSG on Malachor V, cause it'd make a really big boom.
Except problems with that, is actually staying and surviving the surface of Malachor from going insane to gas to facing against Storm Beasts twisted and powered by the Darkside.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

GarfieldJL's Avatar


GarfieldJL
03.08.2013 , 12:00 AM | #248
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
Except problems with that, is actually staying and surviving the surface of Malachor from going insane to gas to facing against Storm Beasts twisted and powered by the Darkside.
How can someone go insane if they are already insane?

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
03.08.2013 , 12:06 AM | #249
Quote: Originally Posted by GarfieldJL View Post
How can someone go insane if they are already insane?
So you'd think G0-T0 would hire insane people? I don't think that would be a very wise move...though I dunno if regular insanity, would keep them safe from the power the darkside gives off on the planet, it could just drive them more insane, I mean even Hanharr was like that. But if by some miracle they do survive, how would they take down a Storm Beast?
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
03.08.2013 , 02:05 PM | #250
(A somewhat lengthy summary of the stage of the debate so far.)

Well seeing as the Gand and the Ubese assassins are still in this, I think we have to consider their capabilities of invading Malachor. Lets say Traya trashes Jekk'Jekk Tarr. All the Gand won't be present, now some might be scared off the hunt, but that is unlikely considering these guys are not only hardened bounty hunters but also have a Trandoshan-like culture of honor through achievements, invading Malachor V and living is certainly an achievement. What the Gand have going for them:

  • They wore breathing gear that would protect them from any poisonous gases on the planets surface, also several Gand were lungless and therefore immune to poison altogether. (In fact suprisingly most Gand were lungless, but wore breather masks to maintain anonymity - this would render Traya's gas attack entirely useless!)

  • There insectoid bodies possess a strong, chitinous exoskeleton which acts as a natural armour making them able to shrug off injuries that would cripple most other species e.g. a bash from a storm beast. It also protects them from nerve or pressure point strikes to neck and shoulders, techniques Sith assassins are likely to use.

  • There eyes possess ultraviolet capablities, giving them excellent night vision which would be useful in a dark and shadowy world like Malachor V.

  • They are skilled in martial arts, and have especially strong hands, allowing them to punch through armour, bone and chitin, a useful skill against close combat opponents.

So in fact Gand are actually quite formidable, and well equipped for invading Malachor V in every respect.

The attack on Jekk'Jekk Tarr will thin the numbers of Ubese assassins/wipe them out entirely if the attack is pulled off successfully. However its plausible that G0-T0 would have a means of replacing these assassins once members were killed, a 'standing order' if you like. What the Ubese having going for them:

  • Like the Gand, these guys also utilise breath masks and will be equally immune to Malachor's poisonous gas vents and in fact often wore a sort of tight-fitting full bodied enviro-suit.

  • These guys are assassins, and therefore likely possess a sort of fearless nature - so they won't be detterred from the prospect of invading Malachor. They also presumably possess stealth capabilities and 'assassination protocols' which will work well in an infiltration and sabotage mission such as this.

  • Each assassin is trained to wield a vibroblade, with enough skill to go toe-to-toe with powerful Jedi. So presumably they could take on Sith and likely easily defeat Sith assassins unless outnumbered.

However we can't forget the Red Eclipse who are also affiliated with the Exchange, however we have to remember that these guys are slavers, and while many are Trandoshan and therefore desire challenges, it is debatable whether they could be persuaded to invade the planet. These guys are made up of Trandoshans and Weequay, so lets see what the Trandoshans have going for them:

  • Have infrared eye-sight which not only allows them to see in the dark, again useful on a planet such as Malachor.

  • They have razor sharp claws which makes them suited to unarmed combat and specifically close combat with assassins and possibly Sith - coupled with their heavy and strong builds makes for a dangerous adversary.

But while we're at it, we may as well take a look at what the HK-50 assassin droids have going for them, based on our knowledge of HK-47's abilites and the fact that these are a supposedly upgraded model we can assume they possess most of the following abilities:

  • As well as blaster weapons, they also possess the more unorthodox forms of weaponry, which may prove more effective against Sith. This includes, flamethrowers and carbonite projectors.

  • As Jedi hunters, they possess a great many skills designed to tackle force users, which would obivoulsly be effective in such a conflict. This includes, grenades, sonic screamers, cluster rockets, plasma charges, poison gas and mines - weapons unable to be deflected by a lightsaber and focused at breaking a force users concentration.

  • They are droids, and therefore undetectable through the Force and immune to poisons and any other detrimental effects of Malachor V - including fear, they are not going to run away from a fight.

I don't think its worth evaluating the likes of Weequay and Duros (Zhug brothers) as these guys are nothing special and likely only good for bantha fodder on Malachor V - if they can even be convinced to join which is unlikely.

So how does G0-T0 invade Malachor? Well Basilisk droids would be ideal but after the Mandalorian Wars these were scarce and those that did exist, existed within the spheres of Mandalorian Clans to whom G0-T0 has no affiliation with. Another option is pods, pods were often used to stealthily deploy troops to the surface of planets disguised as meteors. A similar tactic could be used here (disguised as falling debris.) Another possible option is equipping extremely study vessels e.g gunships, heavy freighters, with cloaking devices.

If he manages to land some ships on the planet successfully he has to scout out the MSG and the Trayus Academy, the former could likely be achieved through some sort of gravity or energy sensor. And the latter won't be so difficult, probe droids are one option, but Atton managed to land pretty close so I'd assume it was visible from afar.

So, with this knowledge the force can split up and pursue a two-pronged attack. Several units are sent to the Trayus Academy while the remainder are sent to the MSG to reactivate it. The latter should and must be droids as no sane being is going to reactivate the MSG knowing what the result will be. The others will have the false directive of invading the Academy, but this is simply a distraction.

If the droids manage to get the MSG back online they can reactiavte it and destroy the planet, taking the Academy, the Sith, the assassins and Traya with it. However there are several problems with this plan:

  • The various hazards Malachor V possesses

  • The fact that Traya may have expected such an attack and either fled the planet or caved in/sabotaged the MSG.

  • Traya, at the heart of the Trayus Core may very well have a vision of the destruction of Malachor, but as many have pointed out, visions of one's death are rare. However she could have a vision of the impending invasion or simply sense their presence through the Force - and therefore respond accordingly.

Bearing the above in mind, we have to consider the following factors:

  • How much damage Traya will do to G0-T0s powerbase while he plans another attack.

  • How successful a second invasion of Malachor V would be, likely minus HK droids and Trandoshans among others.

How G0-T0 would locate and destroy Traya if she fled to Korriban < this IMO is the most important factor we need to consider, as it is the most likely outcome if G0-T0's plan fails.