Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Kaggath Tournament Finals - Traya vs G0-T0

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Kaggath Tournament Finals - Traya vs G0-T0

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
03.02.2013 , 08:21 AM | #151
Quote: Originally Posted by Canino View Post
Alright, time to win this! I think we are forgetting something- G0-T0s droid army. Yes, he has an army, and it spanned the ENTIRE GALAXY. They where programmed to capture Jedi and Sith alike, and bring them to G0-T0.
Let's not forget that G0-T0 was also a key leader of the Exchange, one of the largest and most influencial crime syndicates at the time. The forces of the Jekk'jekk tar, the Refugee Sector, and the Hidden Base are just small examples of the manpower the Exchange has. It is also a galaxy-spanning organization.
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
03.02.2013 , 08:31 AM | #152
Quote: Originally Posted by Ventessel View Post
Yeah... he said that while outflying an entire squadron of Vulture droids in a dogfight....
.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xVUGGzz_ac

In that scene, not a single Vulture Droid was destroyed. In fact, Obi-wan's entire squadron was blown to bits by droids (stregthening my point). And It was hardly a "dog-fight", the droid pilots didn't go after them the whole time the Jedi were flying in a perfectly straight line trying to get the buzz droids off. If anything, that scene shows how droids are more skilled at flying than humans, including Jedi.
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
03.02.2013 , 09:07 AM | #153
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
I don't think size really matters, being that warships and the like also crashed and burned onto the planet. Atton only seemed to do so, cause well....he is one BAMF Jedi scoundrel am pretty sure his heightened reflexes helped him out too with the whole.

Qui gon: "He can see things before they happen. That's why he appears to have such quick reflexes. It's a jedi trait."

bit.
Size does matter, but not in the sense Warren is suggesting. Bigger ships are heavier and therefore more susceptible to Malachor's gravitational pull, it would be nigh impossible to get a large warship close the planet without it being pulled down and crashing, smaller ships however are lighter and less susceptible to Malachor's pull.

Given this, I think G0-T0 could land some small craft on the planets surface, perhaps crash some escape pods... and given that Atton somehow managed to come up through the Trayus Core, a droid could probably pilot it down. Lets also remember Atton pulled that off while the Mass Shadow Generator was active, and the gravity was heavily increased.

Ventessel's Avatar


Ventessel
03.02.2013 , 10:18 AM | #154
Quote: Originally Posted by Warren-Stride View Post
.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xVUGGzz_ac

In that scene, not a single Vulture Droid was destroyed. In fact, Obi-wan's entire squadron was blown to bits by droids (stregthening my point). And It was hardly a "dog-fight", the droid pilots didn't go after them the whole time the Jedi were flying in a perfectly straight line trying to get the buzz droids off. If anything, that scene shows how droids are more skilled at flying than humans, including Jedi.
If that were true, then the CIS would have won the Clone Wars hands down because they always had a numerical advantage in fightercraft. If their fighters won all the time, then they'd have a huge advantage in space battles and probably attain superiority in space... which would pretty much win them the war.

Also, the Jedi evaded the droids and landed on the Invisible Hand, which was their goal. They "outflew" the droids in the sense that they bypassed them, although the clone pilots did get wrecked, but that just makes me question the piloting skills of flash-trained clones.
The Heir to ChaosAdded Chapter Sixteen-- 17 APR 2013
“People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.” ~ George Orwell

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
03.03.2013 , 07:46 AM | #155
OK, some things that need to be considered:

It seems that the strongest method G0-T0 can employ to kill Traya is an all-out HK-50 assault on Malachor V, send a number of HK units to lay siege to the Trayus Academy and have the remainder reactivate the Mass Shadow Generator.

However there are a few problems with this: the mass shadow generator is well guarded, the Trayus Academy is filled with assassins and Sith, Trayus perceptive abilities while largely nullified by the droids will be enough to avoid a 'orbital bombardment' of the Trayus Core, and Malachor's natural fauna and hazardous weather will prove dangerous to the HK units. Basically, there is a possibility of failure.

Now Traya, being aware she has no idea of G0-T0's location or the components of his powerbase, will be eager for information and likely dispatch some assassins/spies to scout out his powerbase on Nar Shaddaa, which would likely culminate with a stealth attack on Jekk'Jekk Tarr, taking out G0-T0s Ubese assassins.

Meanwhile Traya will also be eager to capture some HK units to find out more, granted they will likely have in-built self destruct mechanisms but that can be worked around i.e. ion blasters, decapitation. The units memory cores can then be downloaded and scanned which should provide the location of the HK Manufacturing Plant. Now lets remember that although the HK Manufacturing Plant is well defended Traya does possess her own army of Sith, assassins, troopers and war droids. So we can't dismiss the invasion as doomed to fail. And if it does succeed G0-T0 has lost his HKs and his Ubese assassins, the only units really capable of invading Malachor. Forcing him to come alone.

Food for thought.

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
03.03.2013 , 08:53 AM | #156
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
OK, some things that need to be considered:

It seems that the strongest method G0-T0 can employ to kill Traya is an all-out HK-50 assault on Malachor V, send a number of HK units to lay siege to the Trayus Academy and have the remainder reactivate the Mass Shadow Generator.
I don't think this scenario was ever suggested. For obvious reasons, going through the Trayus Academy is the hard way around. However, now that you bring it up, let's run with it. G0-T0 has hundreds of HKs, based on the time he's been producing them, the size of the factory, and that pic I provided earlier. So he does a three-pronged attack.

1.) HKs head straight down the Trayus Core to face Traya
2.) HKs attack MSG guards (While the G0-T0 clones sneak up and activate them)
3.) HKs storm the Trayus Academy

Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
However there are a few problems with this: the mass shadow generator is well guarded, the Trayus Academy is filled with assassins and Sith, Trayus perceptive abilities while largely nullified by the droids will be enough to avoid a 'orbital bombardment' of the Trayus Core, and Malachor's natural fauna and hazardous weather will prove dangerous to the HK units. Basically, there is a possibility of failure.
A few solutions to this: The MSG is also split into four parts so whatever guards there are will be spread out, HK-50s were designed by Revan so they will have no problem taking out assassins/Sith, Traya's precog only works seconds before danger strikes, Malachor's weather will have no affect/the gas with do nothing while the beasts are hardly a challenge (Stealth).

Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Now Traya, being aware she has no idea of G0-T0's location or the components of his powerbase, will be eager for information and likely dispatch some assassins/spies to scout out his powerbase on Nar Shaddaa, which would likely culminate with a stealth attack on Jekk'Jekk Tarr, taking out G0-T0s Ubese assassins.
Easier said than done. The Jekk'jekk Tar is filled with poisonous gas that would require the assassins to wear full body suits (like Mira did) to get through. And defeating the forces inside is no small feat. They're all deadly trained cut-throat killers. But sure, maybe the assassins get past the Jekk'jekk Tar. Then they go into a maze filled with mines with a door that won't open unless from the other side. If they somehow manage to get through that? Ubese bounty hunters, also extremely skilled in stealth. But here's the catch. The Ubese HATE Jedi/Force users. They specialize in killing them. They'll know what to do to defeat the assassins.

Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Meanwhile Traya will also be eager to capture some HK units to find out more, granted they will likely have in-built self destruct mechanisms but that can be worked around i.e. ion blasters, decapitation. The units memory cores can then be downloaded and scanned which should provide the location of the HK Manufacturing Plant. Now lets remember that although the HK Manufacturing Plant is well defended Traya does possess her own army of Sith, assassins, troopers and war droids. So we can't dismiss the invasion as doomed to fail.
The only way Traya will get her hands on an HK unit is if G0-T0 enacts the three-pronged attack I suggested earlier. Which would mean that in order for Traya to make a move, G0-T0's full offensive would have to fail. The fact that G0-T0 gets the first strike gives him the edge.

The HK factory is a bunker. An army invading a bunker through a single door against hunter-killer droids who specialize in sniper rifles will not go well. Not to mention the traps and defenses of the interior. I seriously doubt Traya will destroy the HK factory.

However. A more realistic argument is that she will lay siege to it, thus blocking any further HKs from being supplied to G0-T0. Of course, G0-T0 has countless more off-world. This is a factory, not a warehouse. He has plenty left even if his factory is destroyed. It just means his supply is limited now.


Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
And if it does succeed G0-T0 has lost his HKs and his Ubese assassins, the only units really capable of invading Malachor. Forcing him to come alone.
No.......

G0-T0 will never go to Malachor alone.
1.) Taking out the HK Factory does NOT mean he has no HKs left
2.) MK-1 droids (G0-T0 clones) are plenty deadly bodyguards for him
3.) There are more Ubese than just those in that basement....
4.) Gand
Quote:
Firstly, the Findsmen, who G0-T0 used, were all force-sensitive and their breath-masks would protect them from gases, so they can be on Malachor. They are also plenty capable of using Stealth tech (that G0-T0 obviously has). They've also been known to be experts at technology, with several becoming weapons specialists and engineers. Obviously they won't be going for Traya, but the MSG. The MSG was pretty much unguarded, and even if it is the Gand will have stealth to hide them. Which would also allow them to get past the storm beasts. The only downside is that Traya will (apparently) be able to sense the future and that they are coming
Taking out two of G0-T0's bases will not cripple him to the point where all he has left is himself. Just.... no.
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?

Canino's Avatar


Canino
03.03.2013 , 09:07 AM | #157
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
OK, some things that need to be considered:

It seems that the strongest method G0-T0 can employ to kill Traya is an all-out HK-50 assault on Malachor V, send a number of HK units to lay siege to the Trayus Academy and have the remainder reactivate the Mass Shadow Generator.

However there are a few problems with this: the mass shadow generator is well guarded, the Trayus Academy is filled with assassins and Sith, Trayus perceptive abilities while largely nullified by the droids will be enough to avoid a 'orbital bombardment' of the Trayus Core, and Malachor's natural fauna and hazardous weather will prove dangerous to the HK units. Basically, there is a possibility of failure.

Now Traya, being aware she has no idea of G0-T0's location or the components of his powerbase, will be eager for information and likely dispatch some assassins/spies to scout out his powerbase on Nar Shaddaa, which would likely culminate with a stealth attack on Jekk'Jekk Tarr, taking out G0-T0s Ubese assassins.
So assassins can just fly through to Nar Shaddaa, without alerting G0-T0? That seems like it would never happen. G0-T0 has intelligence, and those who would inform him of such. Also, the assassins wouldn't have any sort of stealth tech on their ships to protect them from G0-T0's yacht. Even if they do make it to the Jekk'Jekk Tarr, remember the poison gas? I don't believe the assassins know breath control, but breath masks would work.

Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Meanwhile Traya will also be eager to capture some HK units to find out more, granted they will likely have in-built self destruct mechanisms but that can be worked around i.e. ion blasters, decapitation. The units memory cores can then be downloaded and scanned which should provide the location of the HK Manufacturing Plant. Now lets remember that although the HK Manufacturing Plant is well defended Traya does possess her own army of Sith, assassins, troopers and war droids. So we can't dismiss the invasion as doomed to fail. And if it does succeed G0-T0 has lost his HKs and his Ubese assassins, the only units really capable of invading Malachor. Forcing him to come alone.
Food for thought.
Um, are you forgetting about G0-T0's army? Sure, it isn't all just Hk's, but it spans the GALAXY, and has control of countless droids. Yes, HK's are his greatest force, but he does have an army.

EDIT: Plus what Warren said.
STATEMENT: I'm just a simple assassin...I mean bodyguard, master. You have nothing to fear.
---------

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
03.03.2013 , 09:35 AM | #158
Both of you make good points, but concerning the attacks on Jekk'Jekk Tarr and the HK Factory:

You're right, infiltrating Jekk'Jekk Tarr will be very difficult, and probably not worth it. But attacking the HK Factory will not be so difficult. Firstly Traya would not storm the facility head on, she'd send in assassins to infiltrate it first and shut off any preliminary defenses in the military base itself and keep the HK droids busy. That makes it a lot easier for the rest of her Force to march into the base and begin an offense. Granted it will have tons of HK droids but Traya has her own army as well, an army of Sith. Remove the element of stealth and surprise and the HKs are at an disadvantage, even against Sith. Sniper rifles are all well and good but not much good in an enclosed factory with grenades, blaster fire, lightning and who knows what else coming your way.

But of course G0-T0 will have units elsewhere (although we don't no how many) he won't be recieving any reinforcements which means if the next attack fails he's got none left. As for G0-T0's droid army, were talking protocol droids, astromechs and labour droids, nothing exactly capable of storming Malachor V, let alone assassinating Traya.

Traya can also make it hard for G0-T0 to activate the MSG by doing her best to sabotage it e.g. destroying the consoles, caving in entrances etc.

P.S. Concerning precog, seconds is all she'd need, a quick Force leap followed by Force speed and she's outta the Trayus Core, and it only takes seconds to ignite a lightsaber.

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
03.03.2013 , 10:07 AM | #159
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
But attacking the HK Factory will not be so difficult. Firstly Traya would not storm the facility head on, she'd send in assassins to infiltrate it first and shut off any preliminary defenses in the military base itself and keep the HK droids busy. That makes it a lot easier for the rest of her Force to march into the base and begin an offense. Granted it will have tons of HK droids but Traya has her own army as well, an army of Sith. Remove the element of stealth and surprise and the HKs are at an disadvantage, even against Sith. Sniper rifles are all well and good but not much good in an enclosed factory with grenades, blaster fire, lightning and who knows what else coming your way.

Traya can also make it hard for G0-T0 to activate the MSG by doing her best to sabotage it e.g. destroying the consoles, caving in entrances etc.
It's kinda hard to infiltrate a bunker with one door. If it opens, the HKs will know that someone's inside. The gas traps (that the assassins would not know about) would ignore stealth. Not to mention, the Stealth Field Generators the assassins used were not the best quality. They make distortions that the HKs would easily pick up. See this picture. And on the actual battle, HKs will still have the element of surprise. As HK says, and as HK-50s are programmed to do, there are many ways to kill a Jedi/Sith. He gives examples of grenades, sonic weapons, mines*, and flamethrowers. Those are what I remember. *Mines: HKs will set up countless mines if they know their factory might be discovered. Bye bye, Sith.

Traya hasn't done that already, I don't see why she would do so now. And by that logic, the HKs could destroy the entrance to the factory so none of Traya's forces could get in.
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?

Canino's Avatar


Canino
03.03.2013 , 10:18 AM | #160
I still have a question, how does Traya find the bunker? Does it have organic guards or something? Because G0-T0 would never be stupid enough to place organic guards somewhere when fighting Sith. He knows about the powers force users possess, he programmed hi entire army to capture any they saw or heard of. We also have to figure, G0-T0's army might be basic droids, but that makes it all the easier to inflitarte with them. And, almost all of them were augmented with flamethrowers, blasters, and the like. Plus, G0-To has the money to illegally mod them, if they aren't already. With the help of his Telerath, the had piles of money.
STATEMENT: I'm just a simple assassin...I mean bodyguard, master. You have nothing to fear.
---------