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[SAGE] Elidhu's 2.0 PTS Review

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Sage / Sorcerer
[SAGE] Elidhu's 2.0 PTS Review

CJNJ's Avatar


CJNJ
02.23.2013 , 01:15 PM | #11
Idk how the pvp gear works for stats, but in the pve gear this is what I found

The crit is possible for seer. I'm at 34ish with roughly 850 rating and 2500 WP.

With the 2% talent increase I'm at like 6.8% alacrity (like around 360 rating) and my surge with the same rating also just hits 70%. My power is at like 6XX but I also got 2 pvp relics to boost that

So I think the 35% crit is possible, but the 10 alacrity and 65-70% surge is not

khak's Avatar


khak
02.23.2013 , 02:18 PM | #12
idk if it was mentioned but the changes in the dot time of weaken mind in my opinion have altered my rotation more than i would like for my hybrid and even full balance specs. ik its 3 sec from 21 to 18 sec but just playing around with it I find the time my dots are expiring im having to spend more gcd's in a row reapplying dots and force in balance (15sec cd) then spamming tele throw .

I believe its possible i need to mess around with it more to get my timing better so im wasting less consecutive gcds reapplying dots but im still getting around 2350 dps in a 5 min window using 109% acc. I also seem to have similar issues that I did on live (in particular with tk throw) where i use a gcd and the ability is not cast. although that only happens in the parses i have done about 5 times in a 5 min fight it does hurt my dps a little bit.

basically my question is to elidhu and anyone else on the pts is with the new time on weaken mind and suppression having 15 stacks now is it smart to save using your force in balance like on live so that weaken mind gets more stacks of suppression or do you use it on cd and with the changes to the times on the dots do you find yourself using more gcds (particularly consecutivly) to keep them up?

adiwantinova's Avatar


adiwantinova
02.23.2013 , 02:19 PM | #13
Good looking out, Ceeej!

You think the priorities are right, though? Never mind the values, more about the priority? Sorry for thread jacking...
ADI-WAN TINOVA
Adi-Wan, Sentinel | Theresee, Sage | Kahlvin, Guardian
The Shadowlands | <RotJ> | <Triumph>

CJNJ's Avatar


CJNJ
02.23.2013 , 05:27 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by adiwantinova View Post
Good looking out, Ceeej!

You think the priorities are right, though? Never mind the values, more about the priority? Sorry for thread jacking...
Not sure to be honest, each spec benefits from crit in different ways

On the seer side, only ways we benefit from more crit are from HT procs(which conveyance covers) and getting the nice big heals, which even though they are nice, requires some surge to make pretty. I think it may be completely reasonable to shave off crit/surge to go for more power/alacrity, but same thing with healer's preference as to where you wan your stats to go. Ill keep the 35% crit chance I built up because I like it

Now im not that big into dpsing on my sage but here is my guestimation on how stats should look, partially based on the 1.3 BiS found from the lovely people of MMO mechanics. The dps specs things vary alittle because you also got accuracy to deal with, and as elidhu pointed out that's going to take roughly 435 rating to reach 110% force accuracy. In each of the specs crit has some benefits too, not exactly helpful bonuses but bonuses nonetheless.

TK we get better force management with each crit we get(autocrit TB helps here), and some huge surge bonuses as well to our moves. I would say you want the 100% accuracy because most of your moves here get some nice big hits that nobody wants resisted. Same as always alacrity is huge for the spec, cast times FTW. Personally for the spec I would like to try acc to 100%, then alacrity then surge

Balance and hybrid I would put less into alacrity/power and go more the crit/surge route. I feel because most of the moves in the spec have some "over time" function it's safe to be less in accuracy and hope you don't get a FiB or MC initial hit resisted.

What do you think elidhu?

Garell's Avatar


Garell
02.23.2013 , 07:50 PM | #15
If i'm completely honest, any dps sage would be crazy not to get completely accuracy capped.

With regards to stat distribution, i reccomend what you were doing by checking out the BiS lists on MMO-Mechanics from 1.3 and 1.6. For example in both these patches the TK spec was very alacrit reliant due to it's many casts and the gameplay has not changed at all so you will still see that relationship. Balance always saw a higher surge and hybrid always saw an exact 50/50 split.

If i'm completely honest this is the best i have right now, but it is a very safe place to start.

The situation i'm in now is that due to the discontinuation of Simulationcraft and the introduction of new sage talents etc, i have 3 options:

1. Limit my theorycraft to "in-game" trial and error
2. Learn how to update the simulationcraft programme (i've never done anything like that)
3. Create a new spreadsheet as best i can to determine BiS lists for 2.0

Darth_Dreselus's Avatar


Darth_Dreselus
02.24.2013 , 04:45 AM | #16
Do you have parses for those 2300-2500?

Here are some preliminary indicative Sage parses I cobbled together. As I was only comparing builds and rotations they are all 3m long (DPS value taken at 180s), were done on the level 50 dummy with stock Arkanian Force Master's gear, with Prototype Hyper-Battle Resolve Stim, all class buffs, all companion buffs and no armour debuffs and no cds were used.

THESE ARE NOT REPRESENTING ENDGAME DPS VALUES!!!!! They are merely comparing each other.

Balance 3/7/36

Without Disturbance - 2248 at 180s. Force not an issue.
With Disturbance - 2355 at 180s. Force a bit of an issue, ended up with 60% at the 3 minute mark.

Balance 5/5/36

Without Disturbance - 2223 at 180s. Force not an issue.
With Disturbance - 2284 at 180s. Force not an issue but I messed up a bit.

Telekinetics 3/36/7

2163 Force not an issue. Was a bit rusty and missed one or two cds. Also forgot that Disturbance got and is now better than Project.

Hybrid 5/13/28

2300 at 180s. Force not an issue.

Hybrid 2/16/28

With Disturbance on Proc only - 2279 at 180s. Force not an issue.
I have also tried using disturbance every 10s but my stim run out and I made too many mistakes. will play with this more later was just an idea I had (you should see what I did to VG trees =D)
No One Important Died Tavernus - Sorc / Taverna - Mara / Pintus - Op / Gintonica - PT
The Red Eclipse. Sweet Dreams to all my Harbinger children.

Garell's Avatar


Garell
02.24.2013 , 05:14 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Dreselus View Post
Do you have parses for those 2300-2500?
I don't have them to hand but if i get some free time after the raid tonight i'll make a point of doing them

khak's Avatar


khak
02.24.2013 , 03:57 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Dreselus View Post
Do you have parses for those 2300-2500?

Here are some preliminary indicative Sage parses I cobbled together. As I was only comparing builds and rotations they are all 3m long (DPS value taken at 180s), were done on the level 50 dummy with stock Arkanian Force Master's gear, with Prototype Hyper-Battle Resolve Stim, all class buffs, all companion buffs and no armour debuffs and no cds were used.

THESE ARE NOT REPRESENTING ENDGAME DPS VALUES!!!!! They are merely comparing each other.

Balance 3/7/36

Without Disturbance - 2248 at 180s. Force not an issue.
With Disturbance - 2355 at 180s. Force a bit of an issue, ended up with 60% at the 3 minute mark.

Balance 5/5/36

Without Disturbance - 2223 at 180s. Force not an issue.
With Disturbance - 2284 at 180s. Force not an issue but I messed up a bit.

Telekinetics 3/36/7

2163 Force not an issue. Was a bit rusty and missed one or two cds. Also forgot that Disturbance got and is now better than Project.

Hybrid 5/13/28

2300 at 180s. Force not an issue.

Hybrid 2/16/28

With Disturbance on Proc only - 2279 at 180s. Force not an issue.
I have also tried using disturbance every 10s but my stim run out and I made too many mistakes. will play with this more later was just an idea I had (you should see what I did to VG trees =D)
I jsut tried around a 2/16/28 spec jsut for kicks and I can accurately parse around 2350-2450 (RNG and lag mermitting) for a 3 min fight I did in the fleet (lag permitting with how many people are parsing on the dummy). this spec revolves around gambling with how quickly u can get presence of mind up because to get use of tidal force u need to use presence on a disturbance after you have mind crush on cd. i was wondering if anyone else has played around with this spec or something similar and I could compare and contrast numbers to the traditional specs elidhu tested? here is the link to what i specced as exactly

http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-...0000000&ver=20

Darth_Dreselus's Avatar


Darth_Dreselus
02.24.2013 , 09:37 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by khak View Post
I jsut tried around a 2/16/28 spec jsut for kicks and I can accurately parse around 2350-2450 (RNG and lag mermitting) for a 3 min fight I did in the fleet (lag permitting with how many people are parsing on the dummy). this spec revolves around gambling with how quickly u can get presence of mind up because to get use of tidal force u need to use presence on a disturbance after you have mind crush on cd. i was wondering if anyone else has played around with this spec or something similar and I could compare and contrast numbers to the traditional specs elidhu tested? here is the link to what i specced as exactly

http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-...0000000&ver=20
I would say it is an idea definitely worth playing with even if it ultimately fails. If anything it is a good AoE build.

I also realised that Telekinetic Focal Point is worth more than Force Gift. Unfortunately to get it 2 additional points in balance tree are needed leaving the following options:

4% alacrity cap, 20% on TT, 100% on Disturb 2/12/32
5% alacrity cap, 10% on TT, 50% on Disturb3/12/31
There are more options with getting 3% crit from Seer instead as well. Depending on how worthwhile alacrity from trees becomes (i.e if the stat scaling gets adjusted) you can also take an Energy saving build 4/14/28

BTW I am not taking upheaval as I found I just don't have time to throw in projects into the rotations but that does not mean it cannot be utilised with some tweaking. Either way 12 Pts in TK is probably the max. Containment, Pinning Resolve, Jedi resistance and Focused Insight are also generally interchangeable. I feel that Damage decrease and self healing are the most worthwhile for Ops.
No One Important Died Tavernus - Sorc / Taverna - Mara / Pintus - Op / Gintonica - PT
The Red Eclipse. Sweet Dreams to all my Harbinger children.

fearrious's Avatar


fearrious
02.24.2013 , 10:50 PM | #20
I think I could add a few things to the theorycraft.

1) Disturbance should be a net positive for procs and might also be worthwhile in the beginning of the fight when popping cooldowns. A disturbance hit (~2200) is greater than 2 TK throw hits and a crit (~3500) is greater than 2 TK throw crits (same cast time). This also builds up your alacrity stacks instantly and has a higher chance to proc your free dot (extra damage). I think disturbance might also have a role as a filler when weaken mind has 1.5 seconds left in order to maximize DoT uptime, replacing project's role.

2) TK buffs are huge. Force management was never an issue. The rotation is slightly easier because of not needing to limit when to use tk wave. Stat priorities might value a little more crit and surge because alacrity hits such a quick cap. Accuracy cap is probably most important here. TK can put out an obscene amount of damage in a short amount of time now, which i can see as more of a PVP focused buff rather than PVE.

3) While force management issues in balance were not really fixed, the spec seems to play better. Surge should still be a priority because of the amount of damage that relys on DoTs. 15 ticks instead of also helps in the long run.

Overall there are some really nice buffs and I wouldn't be surprised to see sages topping meters. Sages scale the best with alacrity because we were the only ones that really benefited from the stat before. Obviously the accuracy cap is annoying but it will probably end up balancing out.

I will get a parse of TK up later.
-Onomoro
Onomoro, DPS Sage and Derpadin, Vanguard Tank
Raider of Stoic on The Shadowlands
5/5 16 Man TfB.
http://www.stoicguild.org