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To Help or Not to Help. That Is The Question


I_Sithed_MyPants's Avatar


I_Sithed_MyPants
02.24.2013 , 10:28 PM | #11
A true Sith would watch him die...and laugh
R.I.P <Antisocial Elitists>

Ridickilis's Avatar


Ridickilis
02.25.2013 , 10:09 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by whatbrick View Post
So why do it? Honest question for everyone who likes to help. If the person(s) you are trying to help isn't in any danger, and you can't tell if your help would be appreciated or not, then what's the motivation?
Again, based off some of the responses and my own personal gauge you should only give unsolicited help if the player looks like he's going to lose the fight and/or die. Other forms of helping may be that guy that's running from two mobs he accidentally aggroed. I'll think nothing of throwing an aoe taunt so they stop chasing him.

Though funny enough I was 'helped' just yesterday when I really didn't need it. Both my companion and I hardly had a scratch on us and the boss was around half health. Some warrior still came charging in anyway, whatev. I couldn't help but lol and think of this thread. That would have been a situation to not bother helping.

One question I do have about loot/xp stealing. I'm almost positive there is a point where you can grab the xp from someone else if you end up doing more damage to the npc than the other guy. I thought if it remains grey, they have it. If it turns red, you got it. I see other's saying you can't steal xp once someone else engages but I don't think that's accurate, but I'm not 100 percent sure myself.

SturmUndSterne's Avatar


SturmUndSterne
02.25.2013 , 10:32 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by whatbrick View Post
So why do it? Honest question for everyone who likes to help. If the person(s) you are trying to help isn't in any danger, and you can't tell if your help would be appreciated or not, then what's the motivation?

I jump in on other people's boss mobs for one of three reasons.

1. They're about to get rolled. However, your explanation (isn't in any danger) doesn't bring this reason into play.
2. I toss them a group invite, then jump in, if they're killing a group objective based mob when I'm at the same step in the quest.
3. They're finishing off the "Final Stage" bonus boss of a bonus quest/heroic, and I have to/should wait for theirs to die before I can summon my own (something requires a click, for example). Of course, many people (thinking of the H2 on DK that requires you to fight three waves of adds at the bomb placement) don't bother for #3, so I wind up having to fight six or sometimes seven waves of enemies because people just expect groups/others to kill their own mobs..

mikebevo's Avatar


mikebevo
02.25.2013 , 01:40 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by whatbrick View Post
I get annoyed when others jump into the middle of the fight because they tend to break any and all CC, and also make it harder to select any given target because of the sea of nameplates. This situation is particularly bad during Darkness on Ilum (and similar encounters) when we call the bad-guys out, CC and start our kill order, then have a gang-bang of other players leap in to "help.".
When playing my Sentinel or Shadow, I tend to feel the same way. I don't really want help. Don't get upset if I get it, but just don't want it. However, when I get it I use it to my advantage because in operations I have to deal with the same sea of nameplates to target the enemy, so this is good practice. Now on my sawbones or healer operative, people want to help kill stuff, I will take it.

Yesterday I was doing a area quest in Section X on my shadow, got to the final boss, and got too full of myself, didnít heal before starting the encounter. Kept the dps companion out instead of switching to tank or healer and then the phone rang just as I started. Thankfully a group of four showed up when the bot was still at 30% and I was at about 10% and they finished the bot off for me.

One of the major things people can do to help others is in section x during The Dread Guard is to CC or kill the Released Sith Lords walking around when people are killing the bonus boss. I usually make sure they are both dead before I start, but I have seen a many of a wipe there of players not paying attention to their surroundings. I see someone doing it, I donít watch them any longer, I go to the area between the two platforms and CC or kill the sith lord walking up behind them. Occasionally I get a thank you, but most of the time I doubt they even know I was there, since they were not paying attention to that danger in the first place.

Elyssandra's Avatar


Elyssandra
02.25.2013 , 01:49 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by whatbrick View Post
So why do it? Honest question for everyone who likes to help.
Because whatbrick the majority of us would welcome any help to get the tedious, repetitive, grind of dailies done as fast as possible.
We have very little to prove to that mob over there.
It's the 50th time we're killing this mob - it's not going to get any fancier or more interesting.
We aren't doing this daily because of the innovative types of mobs and tactics that it entails.

Most people I know or bump into just want to finish the dailies as fast as they can and move on - and anything that can speed up the tedium is welcomed.
I especially appreciate help on my healer since she takes soooo long to kill compared to when she's DPS specced.
It promotes a sense of community - not just people who exist in the same space at the same time watching someone else without ever interacting with them.
I have made several friends through just such help in dailies.

Are there people who want to be responsible for squeezing every last bit of HP from each member of a trash mob once they have tagged it for XP and loot during dailies?
Obviously yes, since you posted.

I have a niggling suspicion that you're unfortunately in the minority.
The chances are, when well-meaning people throw a rock at a mob that's already been tagged, it's considered helping.

Not saying that makes your desire invalid though. Not at all.
But it is just as valid as people who would prefer not to group up and would be perfectly happy if someone was to help them kill trash mobs faster on their 100th run of "Area mission X kill 15 mobs" by throwing a rock here or there.

Therefore isn't it better to err in favor of helping the majority?

Also why not make your desires known? I was trying to solo a champion droid once and a sage came to help me by healing me. Unwelcome help at this point since it is contrary to what I was trying to do. And it meant that I have to reset the mob and my timer and start again. That's fine though. How is she supposed to know? So I told her and gen chat what I was trying to do and proceeded with no unwelcome help at all.

There is a guy on my server who spams for hours on general chat trying to form groups for various ops and FPs because he wants to do "all sidequests" and kill every single mob in there. From the sheer number of hours he spams, and the sheer number of people who rage quit his groups then come and rage in general chat that he wanted to kill every single mob, we can assume that it's not a very popular way of playing.

whatbrick's Avatar


whatbrick
02.25.2013 , 08:44 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by SturmUndSterne View Post
I jump in on other people's boss mobs for one of three reasons.

1. They're about to get rolled. However, your explanation (isn't in any danger) doesn't bring this reason into play.
2. I toss them a group invite, then jump in, if they're killing a group objective based mob when I'm at the same step in the quest.
3. They're finishing off the "Final Stage" bonus boss of a bonus quest/heroic, and I have to/should wait for theirs to die before I can summon my own (something requires a click, for example). Of course, many people (thinking of the H2 on DK that requires you to fight three waves of adds at the bomb placement) don't bother for #3, so I wind up having to fight six or sometimes seven waves of enemies because people just expect groups/others to kill their own mobs..
This is a good way of handling these situations, unfortunately for this idea I already travel in a group so any other invites do not register. Still a good idea, though.

Quote: Originally Posted by mikebevo View Post
When playing my Sentinel or Shadow, I tend to feel the same way. I don't really want help. Don't get upset if I get it, but just don't want it. However, when I get it I use it to my advantage because in operations I have to deal with the same sea of nameplates to target the enemy, so this is good practice. Now on my sawbones or healer operative, people want to help kill stuff, I will take it.

Yesterday I was doing a area quest in Section X on my shadow, got to the final boss, and got too full of myself, didnít heal before starting the encounter. Kept the dps companion out instead of switching to tank or healer and then the phone rang just as I started. Thankfully a group of four showed up when the bot was still at 30% and I was at about 10% and they finished the bot off for me.

One of the major things people can do to help others is in section x during The Dread Guard is to CC or kill the Released Sith Lords walking around when people are killing the bonus boss. I usually make sure they are both dead before I start, but I have seen a many of a wipe there of players not paying attention to their surroundings. I see someone doing it, I donít watch them any longer, I go to the area between the two platforms and CC or kill the sith lord walking up behind them. Occasionally I get a thank you, but most of the time I doubt they even know I was there, since they were not paying attention to that danger in the first place.
Getting used to a gaggle of nameplates is good practice for operations, true. However, the difference is that every member in the operations group is a known quantity and using focus target and target-of-target can be planned.

The portion in bold is a type of help that I don't mind. While my self-awareness is usually pretty good, it sometimes fails and random adds occur, so any help in culling them will get a silent thumbs-up.

Quote: Originally Posted by Elyssandra View Post
--snipped--
So you want to help others in order to get through your dailies quicker, or to help them get through them quicker? Both? If it's just one person then I can, maybe, understand a bit more. If it's a group, however, then those daily mobs aren't going to die any faster. Regardless, asking to see if they want help may be a better option. Course, this would be easier if we had chat bubbles.

Running dailies at this point is kind of like having a casual conversation between my group and the mobs, and having random people jump in at any given time to offer assistance is like having a stranger interrupt that conversation. We aren't discussing anything important, but the uninvited extras can get annoying. Nothing to grind teeth over, but the eyes do start to roll a bit.

iamthehoyden's Avatar


iamthehoyden
02.25.2013 , 09:28 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by whatbrick View Post
So why do it? Honest question for everyone who likes to help. If the person(s) you are trying to help isn't in any danger, and you can't tell if your help would be appreciated or not, then what's the motivation?
Helping is enjoyable to me. <shrug> It makes me happy to have made someone else's life a little easier. That said, if someone would prefer no help, a quick 'I'm good, thanks' is perfectly fine, and I'll be on my way. Generally, I only lend a hand if they look like they're struggling, but I don't overthink it much. I've only had one person in years of playing ever ask me not to help, cause they were attempting to solo a boss.

I did see a full-on rager in general on Voss one day because a guy had died to an elite and another player had been nearby and hadn't helped. Thought that was a little odd. Help isn't mandated. As far as I'm concerned, it's a nice thing to do, but it's certainly not required.
aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper?
---------------
Fan Fiction: My Name is Solomon Crae The Man in the Box

jovianus's Avatar


jovianus
02.26.2013 , 04:56 AM | #18
On my healer I will habitually tend to throw out heals and a buff to almost anyone I happen to pass by, even if they're clearly not in real danger. Gotten the occasional thank you and return buff, never actually had someone complain.

Though, I'm probably a little too stuck in the healer mindset, because when I'm on a DPS toon I rarely intervene even when someone is clearly getting whomped, because the only thing that comes to mind is, "I have no heals, there's nothing I can do!". There's usually a delay in realizing that I could probably save them if I run up and help kill whatever it is.

jeniyagyu's Avatar


jeniyagyu
02.26.2013 , 07:17 AM | #19
I guess it would depend really...

I've been leveling lowbies and someone will run by me, aggroing like 3 separate mobs of like 3 to get to something for a quest. i just kind of stand there like: "o.o?!" cuz I'm not in a hurry in the least and would have let them go first ... but I don't help people that do that. Although, I don't get complain whispers either....

Otherwise, sometimes people accidentally get in over their head (killing one mob and another one respawns), and I will help them out if I am on my healer or they/their companion are near death.
55 Shadow - 55 Sage - 55 Gunslinger
55 Assassin - 55 Sorcerer - 55 Operative - 55 Juggernaut
~Just wants to raid and have fun. Seriously, Guild Politics make me want to /wrists.~

Grouchy_one's Avatar


Grouchy_one
02.26.2013 , 11:49 AM | #20
Maybe I was being a *****, but during the Gree event, we were waiting for the heroic 4. We saw a guy "accidentally" solo agro the pylon guardian so we decided to help him. Then he went and clicked the panel so we helped him out. When he clicked the panel again and then deliberately agro'd the pylon guardian while we helped him wih the mob, we realized that he was a leech and instead of looking for a group he expected us to "help" him finish the heroic. I told my group to stop attacking the pylon guardian, and as the tank I dragged the guardian away so it would reset. The leech wound up getting the guardian back at 100% health and needless to say he died very quickly without our "help". I don't mind helping (I usually drop the drive by buffs or heals on people), but when people are idiots, I let them reap what they sow.