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30-54 bracket

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SlimsPicken's Avatar


SlimsPicken
02.25.2013 , 11:47 AM | #81
Quote: Originally Posted by Elfa View Post
You need to give free access to the F2P people for at least the 10-29 bracket. That will encourage more PVP play there at that level and grant more interest for them to sub in for the later tiers.
I agree 100%.

This bracket needs to be the draw for pvp so players can actually practice and learn and get better before entering the higher tiers. A handful of games per week is not enough for players to actually learn and adapt to all the WZs, at 5 games a week, you may not even see a particular zone at all so will have very little practice time on many maps.

If not unrestricted access, I would certainly like to see 5 games a DAY at the very least in this bracket- not per week.
For every man there is a sentence, a string of words, which has the power to destroy him.

jesternine's Avatar


jesternine
02.25.2013 , 11:58 AM | #82
Agreed, let the F2P have some better options in PVP, it will get them to subscribe in most cases
...never tell me the odds...

Coldin's Avatar


Coldin
02.25.2013 , 12:58 PM | #83
I really kind of wish the bracket extended to level 55. Some of my most fun in PVP has been warzones before hitting level 50 and the massive gear disparity that comes at cap. Maybe it will be better with Bolster, but if it is better with Bolster, then why put 55s in their own bracket? Capped warzones could just be reserved for Ranked Warzones, where that sort of thing is much more important to the high end PVPer.

DaedalusV's Avatar


DaedalusV
02.25.2013 , 01:06 PM | #84
Quote: Originally Posted by RobHinkle View Post
Valid feedback, and something we continue to debate internally. When we talk about separating the playing population by hard lines, there are always 2 main concerns that often compete directly against each other: A)Can the players inside that bracket reasonably compete against each other, and B)Are there enough players in the bracket to keep wait times reasonably small.

We have initially chosen 30 as our new break point because that is the level in which players start having complete combat rotations (often because they've gotten a really important ability from a skill tree) and our data of who actually queues into Warzones has shown that we've got a good pool on each side of that break. We continue to analyze who is playing, however, so certainly if we ever feel like a particular PvP bracket is being starved we should make changes to it. Unfortunately, that's what we believe would happen with a 50 - 54 bracket. It might be populated initially, but would quickly become empty as players hit 55 and for everyone following the initial surge of levelers there would significantly increased wait times to get into PvP.

A number of players are concerned, reasonably I think, about the power differential between a fresh level 30 player and a current 50 player in augmented EWH gear being inside the same bracket. Our new bolster system should make those players reasonably competitive statistically, both with compensation for the lower items as well as some compensation for having fewer skill points/abilities (if you are lower level). Once we get this bolster bug fixed up, everyone should be able to see the kind of stats you are getting from the bolster and should give everyone a better basis for discussion.
I want to thank you for being so communicative on this, I think I speak for most of the community if I say that you guys should stick with this refreshing change.

A)Can the players inside that bracket reasonably compete against each other, and
B)Are there enough players in the bracket to keep wait times reasonably small.

I'm not certain that A is true when you compare skiilset + talent point pool of a level 30 char compared to a lvl 50-54.
My conern pertains to your initial criteria for setting the break point of the brackets at level 30.
Quote: Originally Posted by RobHinkle View Post
[color=#f9d648]We have initially chosen 30 as our new break point because that is the level in which players start having complete combat rotations (often because they've gotten a really important ability from a skill tree)
I'm thinking you developers would profit alot if you gathered some kind of measureable intel on what the playerbase would feel like a good breaking point and I hope you continue monitoring this thread since I feel it hasn't devolved into the usual mess of insults and hate that tend to clog the interwebz.

Maybe you should do an official poll on the forums, letting us vote on where the break point should be according to us, the playerbase?

I'm thinking you need 31 points in your talent pool before you get to compete in the same bracket as the lvl 50-54 people, so my vote is 10-39 and 40-54 (main reason is the fact some classes really really need the 31 point talent to compete)

I'm withholding further inquiries towards the bolster system until I've had the chance to test it myself.
"you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."
Arwyn Sage Blitzkrieger Sentinel Sk'ye Guardian

DarthSabreth's Avatar


DarthSabreth
02.25.2013 , 01:07 PM | #85
Quote: Originally Posted by RobHinkle View Post
Valid feedback, and something we continue to debate internally. When we talk about separating the playing population by hard lines, there are always 2 main concerns that often compete directly against each other: A)Can the players inside that bracket reasonably compete against each other, and B)Are there enough players in the bracket to keep wait times reasonably small.

We have initially chosen 30 as our new break point because that is the level in which players start having complete combat rotations (often because they've gotten a really important ability from a skill tree) and our data of who actually queues into Warzones has shown that we've got a good pool on each side of that break. We continue to analyze who is playing, however, so certainly if we ever feel like a particular PvP bracket is being starved we should make changes to it. Unfortunately, that's what we believe would happen with a 50 - 54 bracket. It might be populated initially, but would quickly become empty as players hit 55 and for everyone following the initial surge of levelers there would significantly increased wait times to get into PvP.

A number of players are concerned, reasonably I think, about the power differential between a fresh level 30 player and a current 50 player in augmented EWH gear being inside the same bracket. Our new bolster system should make those players reasonably competitive statistically, both with compensation for the lower items as well as some compensation for having fewer skill points/abilities (if you are lower level). Once we get this bolster bug fixed up, everyone should be able to see the kind of stats you are getting from the bolster and should give everyone a better basis for discussion.
I noticed that you raised the issue of wait times, is there any plans of bringing cross server pvp ques into the game so those that do ranked / low lvl pvp brackets / late night or off hours pvpers can have a broader base to pool from for decreased wait times?
"I have brought peace, freedom, justice, and security to my new Empire!" Rip .

L-RANDLE's Avatar


L-RANDLE
02.25.2013 , 01:14 PM | #86
Quote: Originally Posted by RobHinkle View Post
Ya, the bolster will work for level 55s as well, if they are under geared. Could you post the stats on what you are seeing on PTS for your guy wearing legacy gear (or send the information to CommunitySupport@swtor.com, subject: ATTN Rob Hinkle, if you don't want to dirty up the thread). It certainly is the intention that your 55 wearing level 35 gear should get bolstered back up. To give everyone an idea (and BIG caveat here, this number is still in flux), but currently I would expect the new 55 bolster to be getting people into gear right around (statistically) non-augmented EWH.
I need a few hours, but I will definately do this! I know with the bug, the numbers might not be adding correctly, but at least, like you said, it will give you an idea where it is currently.


Thanks Rob!
PvP Gear Viability? Read this first.
Tired of being broke? Stop being Felica and read this.
I'm not trying to be Rambo..... I'm trying to be Ray Tango

DaedalusV's Avatar


DaedalusV
02.25.2013 , 01:15 PM | #87
Quote: Originally Posted by Coldin View Post
I really kind of wish the bracket extended to level 55. Some of my most fun in PVP has been warzones before hitting level 50 and the massive gear disparity that comes at cap. Maybe it will be better with Bolster, but if it is better with Bolster, then why put 55s in their own bracket? Capped warzones could just be reserved for Ranked Warzones, where that sort of thing is much more important to the high end PVPer.
Sorry for double posting. This could actually be a great solution.

keep the 10-49 bracket
have a 50-55 bracket
ranked warzones are level 55 only

The kiddie pool stays the same, the normals will be a bit more chaotic since endgame and near-endgame clashes, rankeds are for end-game only.

When the pool of endgame pvpers gets larger, put in some matchmaking that puts lvl 55 against lvl 55.
"you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."
Arwyn Sage Blitzkrieger Sentinel Sk'ye Guardian

Izorii's Avatar


Izorii
02.25.2013 , 02:28 PM | #88
What really confuses me is the amount of time and effort they seem to be going into trying and get all PvP gear to equal out and to only give PvP players a slight edge over non PvP gear wise. I have always thought that expertise is a big joke when it comes to PvP and especially in war zone matches where this one stat often has more to do with who wins than skill and team work combined.

Now I know that the fact that people can grind out end of game PvP gear in a week (I dont have proof of this just something I was told in another thread) so PvP gear can not equal end game PvE means currently PvP gear can not be as good as PvE gear (out side of PvP) wouldn't it be better to add more content, more ways to get the gear and match the progress to make the gears equal and thus allow people to choose what content they want to play day by day rather than force people to either grind PvP and PvE gear while the developemt team then spend God only knows how long trying to get PvE gear to almost match PvP gear in warzones (But not open world PvP) so they can take part without upsetting PvP players that their week grind wasn't just to get gear which is equal to PvE gear all while trying to make sure the level 31 is not out classed by the level 54 based solo on gear.

Yndras's Avatar


Yndras
02.25.2013 , 03:24 PM | #89
Quote: Originally Posted by RobHinkle View Post
Valid feedback, and something we continue to debate internally. When we talk about separating the playing population by hard lines, there are always 2 main concerns that often compete directly against each other: A)Can the players inside that bracket reasonably compete against each other, and B)Are there enough players in the bracket to keep wait times reasonably small.

We have initially chosen 30 as our new break point because that is the level in which players start having complete combat rotations (often because they've gotten a really important ability from a skill tree) and our data of who actually queues into Warzones has shown that we've got a good pool on each side of that break. We continue to analyze who is playing, however, so certainly if we ever feel like a particular PvP bracket is being starved we should make changes to it. Unfortunately, that's what we believe would happen with a 50 - 54 bracket. It might be populated initially, but would quickly become empty as players hit 55 and for everyone following the initial surge of levelers there would significantly increased wait times to get into PvP.

A number of players are concerned, reasonably I think, about the power differential between a fresh level 30 player and a current 50 player in augmented EWH gear being inside the same bracket. Our new bolster system should make those players reasonably competitive statistically, both with compensation for the lower items as well as some compensation for having fewer skill points/abilities (if you are lower level). Once we get this bolster bug fixed up, everyone should be able to see the kind of stats you are getting from the bolster and should give everyone a better basis for discussion.
Its great to hear that you are willing to change based on feedback. And here is some honest feedback laced with a strong hint of distaste.

Level 30 brackets on Master darnala are "already" suffering. If your committed to making everyones play experiences enjoyable id expect you guys to be doing something about the population NOW. Cos, this change is only going to make it worse and quite frankly im getting rather ****** waiting for a response. Especially when we get fed this rubbish above and never see action.
Layda, Sentinel - Hoarus, Scoundrel
Bandeeto, Mercenary

Kazmtyh's Avatar


Kazmtyh
02.25.2013 , 03:39 PM | #90
Quote: Originally Posted by RoninKetch View Post
I would feel a complete c*nt to come up against a lvl 30 in quest gear in a Warzone a have to then destroy him... it wouldnt be fun for either of us
I don't see a problem. We already have a 10-49 bracket. So right now you have a 39 level gap in pre-50. 30-54 is only a 24 level gap. I wouldn't feel nearly as bad as a 54 hitting a 30 as I do as a 49 hitting a 10. At least by 30 you have the majority of your skills.

And now that they are changing the bolster system to match gear and not level, it should give them a fighting chance. Right now a lvl 10 will never kill a lvl 49 1v1. A fully bolsterd 30 may have a shot at a normally geared 54.
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."