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Xethis's Avatar


Xethis
02.22.2013 , 03:09 AM | #1
I think I found our spec gentlemen. Pls hear me out before you flame.
http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-...0000000&ver=20

Basically 12/31/3. Ill give you guys a quick rundown on the key talents that do make this work and why I am finding good and bad in the rotation.

First the Deception tree. Those of you following the other two threads probably heard about the nerf to Surging Charges Discharge and how it effects our burst. Specially for those of us that ran the Wakajinn spec or something similar. If you ran full Deception before, then you will more than likely really like the changes as there is even more flow and if you don't mind the set up then full Deception in 2.0 is going to be a blast for you.

The key talent in the Deception tree for this build is Impose Weakness. Giving your Low Slash and Spike 100% chance to proc Duplicity on a separate cd from the Duplicity Talent. This lets us make sure we can open with Spike and use Maul right off the bat. On top of that it can proc another Duplicity giving two Mauls right up front. I won't go into detail with the rest of the Deception talents as they should be pretty damn familiar to all of us by now.

Out of the Darkness tree we are taking 3 talents that will improve our Dark Charge as well as a tiny bit of Thrash damage. The cookies are in the third tier with Energize and Disjunction. Disjunction is very sexy as it lets our 15 second sprint also break roots and snares. I don't need to explain why this is so good for Assassins. The Next one is Energize, there is some sexy synergy here guys. Not only does it crit 100% of the time, but it also refreshes the cd when it procs. I would say about 75% of the time it is refreshed before its 6 second CD is up. By itself its critting for me 4.7k-5.6k With the Recklessness buff it is another 50% increase to crit damage that DOES stack with our Crackling Blast talent. With Recklessness my initial Shock is hitting for 5.4k-6.5k damage. Chain Shock is hitting for 1k-2.4k that can be added to your Shock damage 45% of the time. Safe to say, with out Reck, Shock hits for 4.5k-6k, and with Reck it is hitting for 6k-8k.

Only 3 points left so to the Madness tree we go for Torment and last point to help with some crit on our Mauls/Assassonates.

So the first time I tried this, this is what happened. I opened with Spike and then I Mauled for 7.6k, Energize proced so I hit Reck and Shocked for 5.4k (no chain shock proc). That Shock procced my Duplicity for another 8.1k Maul. Energize procced again and Reck still had a charge, 5.8k+2.4k(chain shock proc) I Low Slashed for another 4k non crit Maul. Total of 7 globals and well over 30k damage, this has to be by far our best burst potential with the least mount of set up.

Right now the WZ's on the PTR are absolutely retarded, I will do my best to give you guys some actual pvp data to see if this spec is going to be as good as it is sounding as of right now.

Xethis's Avatar


Xethis
02.22.2013 , 03:30 AM | #2
Just did an Energized Shock that hit for 6k+3k(9k total) and followed it with an 8.4k Maul. You guys need to understand how awesome this is. There aren't any classes out there that can match that much damage in 2 globals.

I have one each AC on the PTR and nobody is hitting this hard with any of there abilities. The most my Sniper did was a 7.2k Ambush followed by a 4k Followthrough. I could hit 7k with my Smash Monkey so multiple targets may compete with that, neither my Mara's Ravage or my Mercs unload could break 10k total damage. When I went Engineering with my sniper, Series of Shots with EP/Explosive grenades was close with about 13k total damage. My Pyro PT was combining TD and RS for about 11k, or even Rocket Punch followed by RS was only about 10k. There aren't any abilities that can hit for 8k in any of these classes, none of them can do over 15k damage in a couple globals with out a channeled ability or an AOE on the crit train.

To put things in perspective, all of the abilities above either take quite a bit of set up or are on long CD's, My Assassin is not only capable of exceeding the damage on all the others, but able to do it way more often. God I can't wait for this to go live.

Bayen's Avatar


Bayen
02.22.2013 , 07:18 AM | #3
sounds promising. looking forward to some pvp data, hope it plays out as you say

Bayen's Avatar


Bayen
02.22.2013 , 08:14 AM | #4
How are you getting 8k mauls? I am in full lvl 55 gear (apart from relics) and im getting 6k with your spec
I am testing on the lvl 55 ops dummy, thats correct right?

Calvin_Mago's Avatar


Calvin_Mago
02.22.2013 , 10:21 AM | #5
@Xethis I gave your spec a shot and ran out of force unbelievably quickly. I'm used to running heavy force consumption specs, but I wouldn't be too comfortable running this in a WZ. Maybe the promised darkness tweak will help in this regard, but looks like I'm going to stick with WJ 2.0.
Suul'ton - Suul
<Seraphic Nexus>

JP_Legatus's Avatar


JP_Legatus
02.22.2013 , 01:53 PM | #6
This spec has the same problem full darkness has. There isn't enough force to spam thrash and then shocks. The mauls are ok on the force pool, but without some way to lower the force cost on shock it's not viable to run energize. It hasn't been viable for a long time. If energize could proc with saber strike it might work.

Bioware did say they were going to fix the force issues in darkness, so all hope for this spec isn't lost. But even with the terrible force issues, I didn't have to delay procs with saber strike all that much and it still only pulled 1900ish dps. Deception does 2300+. Disjunction is good, but I'm not sure it's good enough to give up 400+ dps for it.

As for wakajinn, you won't be doing enough burst to kill any target in the new wakajinn, ever, and you're wasting points on dot damage to get death field which now costs 30 force instead of 25, and you're still having force management issues. I had to saber strike more in wakajinn than I did in your shock spec, and the dps was lower than your shock spec. All this for a spec that doesn't even get disjunction.

TLDR: Deception > shock spec > wakajinn in the new patch. Wakajinn is no longer viable in 2.0 people, deal with it.
When bioware fixes the force regen of darkness it may improve the shock spec as well, so wait for the next PTR changes before deciding whether you want full deception or shock spec.
Plaje - 55 Assassin Sorcheals - 55 Sorcerer
TheHulkk - 55 Juggernaut Riksa - 55 Marauder
Ophealing - 55 Operative Lolsniper - 55 Sniper
Overpoweredtech - 29 Powertech The Bastion http://www.twitch.tv/plajje

Xethis's Avatar


Xethis
02.24.2013 , 12:20 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by JP_Legatus View Post
This spec has the same problem full darkness has. There isn't enough force to spam thrash and then shocks. The mauls are ok on the force pool, but without some way to lower the force cost on shock it's not viable to run energize. It hasn't been viable for a long time. If energize could proc with saber strike it might work.

Bioware did say they were going to fix the force issues in darkness, so all hope for this spec isn't lost. But even with the terrible force issues, I didn't have to delay procs with saber strike all that much and it still only pulled 1900ish dps. Deception does 2300+. Disjunction is good, but I'm not sure it's good enough to give up 400+ dps for it.

As for wakajinn, you won't be doing enough burst to kill any target in the new wakajinn, ever, and you're wasting points on dot damage to get death field which now costs 30 force instead of 25, and you're still having force management issues. I had to saber strike more in wakajinn than I did in your shock spec, and the dps was lower than your shock spec. All this for a spec that doesn't even get disjunction.

TLDR: Deception > shock spec > wakajinn in the new patch. Wakajinn is no longer viable in 2.0 people, deal with it.
When bioware fixes the force regen of darkness it may improve the shock spec as well, so wait for the next PTR changes before deciding whether you want full deception or shock spec.
Yes you are right, you cannot spam Thrash and still have enough force to both Shock and Maul at leisure. You have to fill with Saber strikes with anything at or below 30 force, this way when Energize does proc you are within one Saber Strike of being able to Shock. Yes you will get less Thrashes and ultimately hurting your sustained dps. But the sacrifice is well worth it for a Shock with a 50%-100% crit damage bonus.

Wakajinn was never a spec that boasted high dps numbers. That was the main reason so many were so reluctant to try it. But what they found was they did have high opening burst with very little set up. No set up means you can pour on your burst at anytime with out any warning or indication to your opponent. That is the reason that we are all searching for a spec that has burst with out the set up. I believe I have found the closest thing with this Dark Maul 2.0 spec. It has hard hitting Mauls, hardest instant attacks in the game. As well as a Shock that has up to 100% crit damage bonus that is capable of 9k damage on the ptr, again highest instant cast ability in the game.

There are some challenges associated with the force management of this spec. It is true that you cannot spam Thrash over a 3 minute cycle to maintain the highest possible dps. You can however spam the **** out of it during Dark Embrace which we can get plenty of with a 45 second cd on Blackout and 1.5 min on Cloak. Also, this is a PvP spec, and given the amount of stuns and roots, you can guarantee you will usually be right at or near 100 force when the cc ends.

BW has indicated that they are going to address the force regen of the Darkness tree. If they do a very simple change, such as allow a low tier talent that will allow Thrashes to lower the cost of Shock, I will wet myself if they do that. It will be insane for this spec.

MasterFeign's Avatar


MasterFeign
02.24.2013 , 01:10 AM | #8
Aside from the aforementioned update to darkness that Bioware has mentioned, I could see this spec being more for pugging warzones, as not having force pull would hinder rateds. It does look quite interesting however.

I'm tempted to try 32 1 13, however for rateds I feel as though going full darkness would still be beneficial, especially as I'd put some points in assassin's shelter.

DaftVaduhhh's Avatar


DaftVaduhhh
02.24.2013 , 01:12 AM | #9
I'm just a dastardly shadow browsing for info, but couldn't you just push for Blood of the Sith to fix the regen issue? Yes you lose having controlled burst from low slash & spike, but is that worth creating something that leaves you a sitting duck 50% of the time?

http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-...0000000&ver=20
Daftvaduhh - 55 Shadow - GM of <Beyond Redemption> (The Harbinger)
La-femme - 55 Sage, Woklobster - 55 Guardian, Opfreely - 55 Sentinel
Drworm - 55 Commando, Rollface - 55 Vanguard, Leeloo'd - 55 Scoundrel, Rolling-deep - 55 Gunslinger

DaftVaduhhh's Avatar


DaftVaduhhh
02.24.2013 , 01:21 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterFeign View Post
Aside from the aforementioned update to darkness that Bioware has mentioned, I could see this spec being more for pugging warzones, as not having force pull would hinder rateds. It does look quite interesting however.

I'm tempted to try 32 1 13, however for rateds I feel as though going full darkness would still be beneficial, especially as I'd put some points in assassin's shelter.
The two top tiers of Darkness look to be useless for PvP tanks. Sure you'll only be able to use Harnessed Shadows every 20s, but that's probably all you'd manage anyway.

The healing well is just an invitation to drop an AoE attack like Flyby/Orbital Strike, and takes too long to set up for anything other than when you're in preparation for node defending.

Slow time & force breach don't do enough in the stance to be worth your time, not when you can get masked assault/dark swell or a 5 person AOE that eats through most players (extra defence above base buffs resistance though).

Finally the shadow strike ability is a marginal DPS gain, and is built for PvE. You are far and away better off with the infil ability, where you can load up for a surge bonus on it.
Daftvaduhh - 55 Shadow - GM of <Beyond Redemption> (The Harbinger)
La-femme - 55 Sage, Woklobster - 55 Guardian, Opfreely - 55 Sentinel
Drworm - 55 Commando, Rollface - 55 Vanguard, Leeloo'd - 55 Scoundrel, Rolling-deep - 55 Gunslinger