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Madness 2.0


Cwild's Avatar


Cwild
02.21.2013 , 12:39 PM | #1
Has anyone done a few wz's with the new madness talents? Just curious to see if the damage buffs (although they said slight) were decent. I really enjoy playing a dot based class and was hoping we would of got some type of dot protection this patch but that seems to not be the case.

Laforet's Avatar


Laforet
02.21.2013 , 03:20 PM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by Cwild View Post
Has anyone done a few wz's with the new madness talents? Just curious to see if the damage buffs (although they said slight) were decent. I really enjoy playing a dot based class and was hoping we would of got some type of dot protection this patch but that seems to not be the case.
Yup, madness is almost the same as it is on live.

Damage buffs are very slight on full madness, but then considering the other classes damage/healing also went up and that some of our attacks which werent shieldable now are, i would say our damage stays in the same levels of live, if not slightly nerfed if compared to other classes damage.

The lost of the instant whirlind talent is dissapoinint and hurts us a lot.

All in all, if youre a good madness player in live you will do almost as good in 2.0, but you still has the same problems, if not more. IMO madness is a good spec for DUELING but its awkwardness for 8 man objective PvP just got more visible with the loss of instant whirl and not sufficient damage buffs.

Force management is still a problem, since you have no real relief, spam light to help with regen is almost impossible but its like that on live already.

All in all, its fun, if youre skilled you can totally rape the random pugs, but dont expect to see too much of madness on RWZs if 2.0 goes live this way.

Oh and Force Barrier is super good, awesome, you will have a lot of fun with it.

All testing has been done at lvl 55 with full EWH modded augmented gear, but i doubt things will change a lot with the new tier gear.
Believer - Seer - Fatman - RETIRED

Cwild's Avatar


Cwild
02.21.2013 , 03:23 PM | #3
Thank you for your response. Trying to decide between my sorc or my operative. Love them both. Appreciate the feedback.

Monterone's Avatar


Monterone
02.21.2013 , 07:26 PM | #4
I don't think they're slight for madness in the least!

Just looking at this (I logged in to PTS to verify this):
http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-.../sorcerer/236/

Death Field now hits 5 targets! That's a big boost to dps... in addition Wrath now boosts damage by 35% instead of 20%. We lose the double Shock proc, but it's easy to still pick up. I may not though as it seems the high force cost Shock is less in our rotation now, and we have more reason to use Wrath for Lightning Strike instead of using a gcd for Shock, we'll see.

There are many other changes.
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veyl's Avatar


veyl
02.21.2013 , 07:41 PM | #5
Can't really test anything for madness in PVP right now due to Warzones being completely broken with players having 400k health and one shotting people due to a bug.

I did manage to play a few games to test out the build and did some PVE testing on the operation dummy.

No instant whirlwind absolutely sucks, we need more sorcs testing and giving feedback to change that **** back. Force Barrier is NOT as good as it's made out to be by the guy above. You stand there in a giant bubble unable to do anything. When the channel is done you *might* be able to force sprint away, however, if your team didn't heal// kill whatever is around you... you will still be obliterated just like live. I've said this before: It's much like ICEBLOCK from Warcraft that mages had... The big differences are you can't freeze everything around you in place and blink away. You only get to hope that you're not rooted out of the block when you force sprint. They moved both bindings and the blind, too high in lightning to go hybrid so that is out of the question.

The damage output is not that strong in pvp but again, nearly impossible to actually test because of the bolter//expertise stacking.

In PVE, there's a noticeable increase.... But we still don't have a Sub 30% execute range talent like everyone else does (except for arsenal mercs who also don't have one) but the Assassins got it in their Madness tree. Ridiculous.

I would much rather have the Teleport ability that Sins got (( AND LOL @ THAT. Who in the right mind decided assasins needed yet ANOTHER escape that can be done In or out of stealth? This development team is a joke.)

Edonidd's Avatar


Edonidd
02.21.2013 , 08:04 PM | #6
I got to level 10 on my Inquisitors and didn't really have to think all that hard about which advanced class to choose. I rarely used the saber attacks and used shock and force lightni.g almost exclusively to kill things. I looked at some of the guides and knew Sins got much better saber attacks, so figured the Sorcerers got much better force/ranged attacks. I found out that Sins get better damage from all saber attacks obviously, but also can hit harder with shock in all three trees than Sorcs can in any tree. Can hit harder with Force Lightning in one tree than Sorc's can in any tree. But at least I liked Deathfield. So what if they could do slightly more damage than us (melee crits increase ranged crit chance) with that too. But now they get an execute built into deathfield, to go along with an actual execute.

Deathfield is what now, the 5th different ability Sins have a capability to get 5k+ hits with? Sorcs still don't have 1 yet.

Laforet's Avatar


Laforet
02.21.2013 , 08:10 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Monterone View Post
I don't think they're slight for madness in the least!

Just looking at this (I logged in to PTS to verify this):
http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-.../sorcerer/236/

Death Field now hits 5 targets! That's a big boost to dps... in addition Wrath now boosts damage by 35% instead of 20%. We lose the double Shock proc, but it's easy to still pick up. I may not though as it seems the high force cost Shock is less in our rotation now, and we have more reason to use Wrath for Lightning Strike instead of using a gcd for Shock, we'll see.

There are many other changes.
Every class got damage buffs, if you look at things and isolate them you will think every single class has been buffed and its now overpowered.

I have only tested Pyrotech and Sorc on the PTS so far but i can tell you that pyros still do much more damage than madness.

Its kind of soon to take final conclusions but my experience so far is that sorc damage is still low if compared to other DPS ACs and doesnt make up for the low survivability of the AC.

Even with the buffs, madness still lacks any kind of single target burst. Which is what makes or breaks PvP anyway.
Believer - Seer - Fatman - RETIRED

Elvandar's Avatar


Elvandar
02.21.2013 , 08:25 PM | #8
I've tested all classes at 55 and with Sorc being my main I can say the damage boost of madness isn't "slight" at all, it's actually quite large. All of our abilities hit consideribly harder and the talent changes as well as the redesign of alacrity really compliment the whole spec. I've been able to kill every class 1v1 (excluding stealthers due to their obvious advantage in 1v1) and finish with just under 50% health.

I parsed with every class and while I don't have any numbers to share on this laptop I do know that Lightning Sorc was among the highest dps with madness being slightly behind. (although madness will surely outperform on some fights).

As someone who has played this class since beta I am extremely happy with what bioware have done with the class. Although they've kept the sustained damage feel it now feels significant enough to compete with the burst other classes can push.

I only have two complaints about madness thusfar. The first is like many others I feel that the removal of instant whirlwind was a little unjustified. I do however think with our larger damage potential we wouldn't have to rely on it as much as we have in the past, but even so it was a nice utility I feel we shouldn't have lost.

My second complaint is regarding an Assassin talent called Bloodletting which basically increases deathfield and dot damage by 15% on targets under 30% health. You can think of it as a periodic execute ability. My complaint is simply that we don't have it. This is something we would really benefit from, but it was given to Asssasins despite them already having an extremely strong execute skill. I feel like having this talent would really round off the spec into a near perfect state for Sorcs. One of the issues madness has always had, for example when killing healers, is once we've gotten them very low our damage is just too slow to put them down before they pop an emergency heal or cooldown and they just hold on for dear life until someone helps them or someone helps you. It's fine to outheal some damage, but our constant damage shouldn't be outhealed indefinitely. This talent would help eliminate that problem entirely. I can't understand for the life of me why this was given to Assassins.

Overall I'm very much looking forward to Sorcerers feeling powerful again. It's been a long time since any of us felt like we filled that epic Palpatine role. Anybody who's wondering about the state of Sorcerers, here it is plain and simple. Things are looking up. I can't believe I'm about to say this, but... Good job Bioware. You may not have fixed the class indefinitely, but it's definitely more than viable again.

Quote: Originally Posted by Edonidd View Post
Deathfield is what now, the 5th different ability Sins have a capability to get 5k+ hits with? Sorcs still don't have 1 yet.
You'll find most abilities used in the Lightning rotation hit extremely hard now. Lightning Strike consistently hits for 3-4k and Thundering Blast and Chain Lightning tend to hit for a minimum of 6k with the new gear sets and both have a chance to proc a second attack which usually hits between 1-2k. You could easily do 20k damage chaining these two abilities together if you're lucky with procs/crits and that's not including the potential AOE from chain lightning. Also Deathfield for sorcs hits just as hard as it does for Assassins and always has.

TomWolp's Avatar


TomWolp
02.21.2013 , 09:00 PM | #9
From a PVE perspective, just looking at the skill tree it's interesting.

They potentially give you a reason to use Lightning Strike with the 35 percent extra damage from Wrath, the Lightning Burns proc and the proc that has the 100 percent change to increase your alacrity if you use lightning strike.

There is nothing new in the madness tree that helps with force regen but if you invest 7 points in the lightning tree you can get Subversion which increases your force regen rate for 10 percent and stacks up to three times if you use Lightning Strike. Granted you could do that before, but there was little incentive to use Lightning Strike. If you do that however, then you would have to decide between getting the 3 percent extra crit chance in the corruption tree or the 2 percent extra alacrity and the 1 percent extra crit chance.

The main concern is that they eliminated the second tier talent in the lighting tree that extended your affliction by 6 seconds which means you will have to reapply that a lot more.

Also, it feels like there are a lot of utility talents in the madness tree that you would need to take to get Creeping Terror that are of questionable utility in PVE.

Glower's Avatar


Glower
02.22.2013 , 04:18 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Laforet View Post
The lost of the instant whirlind talent is dissapoinint and hurts us a lot..
^this
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