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Stop forcing PVP on PVE servers


Morden's Avatar


Morden
02.27.2013 , 07:24 PM | #161
Quote: Originally Posted by hunterraaze View Post
Wow, people are still complaining about this? Guess what, the event ends tomorrow. Honestly people, this was a PvP event, on a PvP planet. The last two events were PvE. It's time they show their PvP love. I think people like you like to complain for the sake of complaining. Some might throw the argument, I'm on a PvE server to avoid this. Well, then avoid it. It's literally what, two or three missions out of the THOUSANDS in game. You are not FORCED to do the missions. Before you start thinking I'm a griefer, I'm not. I only do PvE, except for this event. I know what to expect, and I go in willingly. I'm a Merc, which should tell you right there I'm not going to be running around killing everyone, in Columi gear. I have lost literally every encounter. And I get in them alot. And yet, I'm not whining. Either do the missions, or don't, your not FORCED to do anything.
How is it a PvP event? No actual PvP is required to complete it. Yes, it is in an area that is normally PvP (which they turned off for the event), and you do have to enter an open PvP area in order to complete 3 missions. (2 daily, 1 weekly)However, again, not actual PvP is required. I have successfully completed the weekly without having engaged in a single PvP encounter. I have also had several encounters within an hour (switching instances, and in different areas). Those encounters did not enhance my game play, just wasted my time (it took longer to complete my objectives).

This event is over, but it will appear again in the future (supposedly). Hopefully, it will change, but then again, I guess it won't matter if I've already reached Legendary, because there will be no reason to repeat it. There will also be other events (supposedly) in the future. Perhaps if enough people speak out, the devs will listen. Also, the mission for HK-51 requires entering an open PvP area... why? So, this is an ongoing issue. I just used the most relevant event at the time as an example.

I agree, they should show love to PvP players. They should have a PvP event (Gree isn't one). They should reward people for PvPing in the event. (kill bonus, damage bonus, heal bonus, something bonus). It should be an event that you "must" perform PvP in order to complete. I might even set aside my gripe with PvP, as I do at times to join warzones, and participate in it. (though, I'm sure many PvPers would appreciate me avoiding the warzones, as I may not conform to what they expect)
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Morden's Avatar


Morden
02.27.2013 , 07:25 PM | #162
Quote: Originally Posted by Mowermanx View Post
This is where any and all your arguments fall over, there is simply no need for the small amount of rep that can be garnered from the 2 pvp quests to complete the objectives for this event.
You get more rep in 1 day in the pve missions than you would doing only the pvp quest for a whole week.
This is such a non issue, Its really hard to understand some posts in this thread.
You apparently fail to take into account the "weekly" quests, that gives a significant bonus. Also, you fail to take into account that some players only have a certain number of days to play. If you want to reach Champion/Legendary status before the next time the event is run (who know when that will be), you may well have to take every possible opportunity to get rep. (510 rep per day for the PvP missions). It can be argued that there is no point to reaching Champion/Legendary status, aside from pets and gear... Getting Hero status unlocks a legacy saber, which is not otherwise obtainable. For those who have multiple Jedi, that can be very important.
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Morden's Avatar


Morden
02.27.2013 , 08:10 PM | #163
Quote: Originally Posted by anonnn View Post
.
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  • What is it about PvP gameplay that bothers strictly PvE-only players so much?

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That is an excellent question. Obviously, I can only express my limited understanding from conversations from others, and my personal opinions. I am sure there are many reasons. My experience pre-dates MMORPGs, back into the text based BBS games. (not that it makes me an expert, as I am far from it)

For me, it is the general intent behind it. I hear terms like "pwned" and "noob" and other negative terms thrown around / revolving around it. I have often seen attitudes of "I do it, because I can." They appear to enjoy frustrating others, and taking something away from them. (I know, that isn't always the case, but I've seen it too many times.) Let me give you a scenario of one of my recent encounters while doing the Gree mission. I was flagged, either from a group member or for doing the quest in the PvP area, I was attacked randomly (I wasn't at a resource, just nowhere). I ran, because I don't care to engage, and I finally escaped, but I was near death (~10% health). Before I had a chance to heal up, someone nearby flagged themselves and killed me. I was at 10% health, there was no challenge. They received no reward. They probably bragged ("haha, I just pwned some noob") about it (I know, its speculative). I had to pay for repairs, and fly back out to my next objective again. (Ok, so it was only 10k credits, and a few minutes, but still - I didn't enjoy it.) Why would that person have flagged, just to kill me? Answer that, and you'll probably answer why PvE players tend to despise PvP.
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Morden's Avatar


Morden
02.27.2013 , 08:24 PM | #164
Quote: Originally Posted by ScarletBlaze View Post
From what I read you are doing the exact same thing. In order for you to say someone is being hateful you should not do the same exact thing.

When people are hateful and rude to I do not respond in the same manner. In this way I have a right to say something since I didn't respond in the same manner.

Unfortunely you cannot say that. You have respond in the same manner.

I'm am a rp/pve player and I do not feel the same way you do so you are not speaking for me. Let me state this very clearly I do not like pvp never have but I believe the pvp players should have things brought in for them to enjoy.

The only problem I see that needs fixed is the auto flagging when you are using your aoe. This has been brought up to BW a very long time ago and they have yet to fix it.

As far as the quests I do not see anything wrong with giving the pvp players something just for them to enjoy. It was two quests. I do not see why anyone would have a problem with the pvp players having something just for them to do.

And please do not waste your time or mine responding to my posts anymore as I will not respond to you. It is not worth the time and effort to respond when someone acts the way he is accusing everyone else of.
Yes, the auto flagging is a significant issue that BW has failed to correct.

I agree, it is good to give PvP players new content. As far as the Gree event, I would like to point out that none of the missions are PvP missions. I know, two of them are marked "PvP," and take place in an open PvP area. However, I would like to point out that no PvP is actually required. I have completed them several times without even witnessing PvP encounters. I have witnessed a lot of cooperation (lines) and respect being shown to other players. All this really does is serves up PvE players to PvP players for fodder. It doesn't matter if someone is flagged, and you are technically able to attack them, that doesn't meant they want to engage in PvP. By engaging in PvP in that instance, it is being rude. You are attacking someone who presumably doesn't want to be attacked. (note: they aren't attacking you) I think it is reasonable to assume that most people in the open PvP area, during the Gree event, is there to complete the objectives. Yes, some people are there just to grief those people playing; I've seen apparent camping of the center area. While some may go in hopes of finding some PvP, following the spirit of the "PvP" missions.
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Morden
02.27.2013 , 08:30 PM | #165
Quote: Originally Posted by LanceCorporalDan View Post
This is where we will just disagree and it boils down to a yes/no argument.

This event has both playstyles to cater to both player crowds across the entire game and across all servers. Now could they have changed it to have the pvp missions only on pvp servers? Maybe. But i feel if you want to get extra rep, you gotta put in extra effort.
You mean the extra effort of repeating things, because someone decides to kill you for their own enjoyment? That is a one-sided enjoyment in most cases.
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Morden's Avatar


Morden
02.27.2013 , 08:45 PM | #166
Quote: Originally Posted by anonnn View Post
So many people get completely off-topic and fail to keep in mind the main point of this thread:
This all leads to the following unyielding necessities for Events:
(1) Any [PVP] missions need to have corresponding [PVE] missions that are nearly identical in content or theme, which are a fair alternative to the PvP missions (i.e. a player can do the [PVP] missions or its [PVE] counterpart, but not both)
(2) Some kind of auxiliary flagging rules, or mission logistics needs to be worked out, so that PvE players don't have to go on Event missions and have to deal with PvP garbage. Events are intended to be especially enjoyable for players, and having to deal with PvP when you don't want to genuinely ruins a lot of the experience.
Anonnn, I would like to thank you for all of your constructive input. I would also like to thank everyone else who provided constructive input. I would even like to thank those with non-constructive input; it gives us more to argue about, even if not very productive. One can even relate "non-constructive input" with unwanted PvP. It fuels the enjoyment of one side, while trying to take away enjoyment from another (intentionally, or otherwise).

Anonnn, I appreciate you highlighting some main points of the topic. (I cut it out of the quote to keep size down). When I first wrote this post, I was tired and frustrated, and failed to do my best at articulating my points.
I like the either/or option for PvE/PvP missions. As far as "ruins a lot of the experience..." all you have to do is listen to all those who complain in general chat about players whining about PvP in PvP areas. It apparently creates a negative experience for both PvP and PvE players.
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hunterraaze's Avatar


hunterraaze
02.27.2013 , 08:48 PM | #167
Quote: Originally Posted by inunonichan View Post
Your post is just spam at this point. You make absolutely no argument whatsoever that has any relevance to the issue at hand. Like I said before, I could care less how much you feel you are getting shortchanged by lack of PvP content, go complain about in on a different thread.

It's a bit rich for you to accuse us of complaining for the sake of it...

It's not throwing an argument when that is a major, valid reason why people pick server's to begin with. Avoiding it is what a lot of people do. But we are not talking about PvP in a WZ here. That is optional, as it should be on a PvE server. We are talking about a quest that rewards a limited resource. Can you document the THOUSANDS of quests that give you Rep with the Gree?

It doesn't matter whether you have any personal stake in the matter, if you can't form an argument properly, you aren't advancing the issue. Just because you get ganked too doesn't make your opinion suddenly valid, even if it keeps flying in the face of the other arguments being presented. Which is that some people picked a PvE server because it means something, and forcing us to wade into PvP areas to get access to PvE content is bad design.
First off, you say my post is spam, check through the countless forums that are whining about this very topic. If anything, the OP is "spamming". You should also reread, I did put out an argument, don't do the missions if you don't like them. You are not forced into doing them, as the OP claims.
Quote:
Like I said before, I could care less how much you feel you are getting shortchanged by lack of PvP content, go complain about in on a different thread.
That sounds pretty selfish and hypocritical.
Quote:
We are talking about a quest that rewards a limited resource.
It's been stated many times, the event will return. When it returns, you can make up for not doing the PvP missions. Also, is this not how the game works? Lets take endgame gearing for an example. The players who put out more work, are going to get their gear faster. Players who don't like doing dailies for an example, don't put out as much work as players who do, does it not make sense to better reward the players who work harder? That can very well be applied in this event. Players who are willing to put out the extra work (doing the PvP missions), will get their rep up faster, versus the players who don't.
Quote:
Just because you get ganked too doesn't make your opinion suddenly valid, even if it keeps flying in the face of the other arguments being presented.
From my understanding at the time, the reason players are complaining about this in the first place, is because they are getting ganked. That is originally why I brought this up.

I do admit, when I put up my original post, I wasn't in a very good mood, so it didn't really represent the correct 'tone'
that was intended. I will probably edit it after reading all the arguments made. But over all, my position on the topic hasn't changed. The point is, if you don't want to do the PvP missions, simply don't. You will be able to make up for this in the future.
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Morden
02.27.2013 , 11:35 PM | #168
Quote: Originally Posted by hunterraaze View Post
First off, you say my post is spam, check through the countless forums that are whining about this very topic. If anything, the OP is "spamming". You should also reread, I did put out an argument, don't do the missions if you don't like them. You are not forced into doing them, as the OP claims.

That sounds pretty selfish and hypocritical.

It's been stated many times, the event will return. When it returns, you can make up for not doing the PvP missions. Also, is this not how the game works? Lets take endgame gearing for an example. The players who put out more work, are going to get their gear faster. Players who don't like doing dailies for an example, don't put out as much work as players who do, does it not make sense to better reward the players who work harder? That can very well be applied in this event. Players who are willing to put out the extra work (doing the PvP missions), will get their rep up faster, versus the players who don't.

From my understanding at the time, the reason players are complaining about this in the first place, is because they are getting ganked. That is originally why I brought this up.

I do admit, when I put up my original post, I wasn't in a very good mood, so it didn't really represent the correct 'tone'
that was intended. I will probably edit it after reading all the arguments made. But over all, my position on the topic hasn't changed. The point is, if you don't want to do the PvP missions, simply don't. You will be able to make up for this in the future.
I will admit, again, that my use of the term "forcing" is probably inappropriate. First, I don't have to participate in the event. Second, I can do the missions without engaging in PvP. I guess the biggest issue is all those who initiate senseless PvP for their own enjoyment. I'm speaking about players who attack other players who do not wish to engage in PvP. As again, PvP is not required to do the quests marked "PvP." I also don't have to unlock HK-51, which requires entering an open PvP area. I could even forgive players attacking other players if they are competing for resources; which often wasn't the case from what I experienced. However, that doesn't address the issue that many people want to participate in this limited time event, without falling victim to the idiocy of others. (I know, idiocy seems like a strong word, but that is how I view it) Perhaps we should appeal to the players... but do they care? Or, are they too involved in how they want to play their game, that they don't care if they affect someone else's game?

Yes, the event will take place again in the future, or so it is stated. When will it take place? Six months? A year? Two years? How long should I wait to get a Legacy saber? What if a player is on vacation for one of the weeks? What If they can't log in every day? What if they have only a single level 50, because they are new to the game, or don't have enough time dedicated to the game to have several level 50s, or they have several 45s that they are taking their time working on?

Again, they aren't PvP missions, as no PvP is required. They just happen to take place in a PvP area. If they want to make them PvP missions, then they should require PvP. (do XXX damage, do XXX healing, do XXX guarding, etc)
As for your argument about players who put in more work, get rewards faster. That is not always the case. How long do the queues take for DPS to get into HMs, and other group finder quests (in regards to BH comms)? How much time do they have to dedicate to the game. It isn't always about how much work people put into it. Often, the argument lies with "MMORPGs cater to the socially deprived, unemployed, etc..." I've heard similar statements on several occasions. Also, tanks have to work twice as hard if they want both tank and dps gear. I'm not even sure how this relates to the main topic, so I'll stop here.

My main point, is to ask the devs to stop releasing content that causes grief and conflict. Senseless PvP doesn't really benefit the game. Oh, and the requirement (forcing) is to do the quests marked "PvP" in order to complete the weekly. Obviously, we aren't forced to play the game. Outside of the first part of getting off the starter worlds, players aren't forced to PvE, but I'm sure many of them feel that they are. You also aren't forced to choose an Advanced Class, but you would be at a disadvantage if you didn't.
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s_w_sanders's Avatar


s_w_sanders
02.27.2013 , 11:54 PM | #169
I will admit I didn't participate in this event, and I don't see myself participating in it in the future. The reason is the pvp, I want to complete the mission my character isn't built to be great at pvp, and I don't have pvp gear. Both those things will put someone at a great advantage over me.

Also i've heard a lot about people sitting near an objective (in this event and getting the HK part) and attacking those doing it. That says to me that this community isn't mature enough for pvp. We want an easy win and don't take other's enjoyment into account. I'm not saying we need to eliminate pvp, but we shouldn't have any events in any pvp area's from now on. If the community can't respect each other in those areas then they should not be in those areas.

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anonnn
02.28.2013 , 12:56 AM | #170
Quote: Originally Posted by Morden View Post
...
For me, it is the general intent behind it. I hear terms like "pwned" and "noob" and other negative terms thrown around / revolving around it. I have often seen attitudes of "I do it, because I can." They appear to enjoy frustrating others, and taking something away from them. (I know, that isn't always the case, but I've seen it too many times.)
...
Bad sportsmanship really does ruin the game for a lot of people.

Quote: Originally Posted by Morden View Post
...
Before I had a chance to heal up, someone nearby flagged themselves and killed me. I was at 10% health, there was no challenge. They received no reward. They probably bragged ("haha, I just pwned some noob") about it (I know, its speculative). I had to pay for repairs ...
That's interesting, I hadn't specifically realized that getting defeated in PvP causes equipment damage. That is truly obnoxious.

The civil rights of PvE players ...
Boring conversation anyway.
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