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Someone has to take your spot when you leave

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Someone has to take your spot when you leave

Lionflash's Avatar


Lionflash
02.20.2013 , 10:05 AM | #31
I have never quit a WZ in the year and a bit that i've been playing this game. It's come to a point where now I can never ever let myself leave just so I can continue saying I've never bailed on a WZ once.

I'm not gonna lie, I've been at a point where 6 players were off /dancing and farming defense medals when we had plenty of time to still go for a comeback. I was 1 button click away from leaving but then I had to stop myself.

I never quit...I've also never farmed defense medals... If you need me i'll be 1 v 6-ing mid in Civil War when we're losing at (60 - 340) while everyone else wastes their sub.

clickonce's Avatar


clickonce
02.20.2013 , 10:21 AM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by Sadishist View Post
Remember this, when you leave early because you don't want to waste your time, remember that every time you do someone who is waiting next in the queue has to waste their time taking your spot. Think about this next time you leave a warzone early.
Quitters are not to blame... Bioware is for not having a matchmaking system.

Which is also why you won't see a quitter debuff. They can't punish customers for their design flaw.

Quitting is basically customers doing their own match-making.
-----------------------------------
Inspiring rage-quits since 2001.

Sadishist's Avatar


Sadishist
02.20.2013 , 10:23 AM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by clickonce View Post
Quitters are not to blame... Bioware is for not having a matchmaking system.

Which is also why you won't see a quitter debuff. They can't punish customers for their design flaw.

Quitting is basically customers doing their own match-making.
It's called Ranked WZ. Quitters are selfish people who are thinking only of themselves and inconsiderate of others.
A fearful enemy is at his most dangerous.

The Fallen Lords of The Bastion
Juggernaut: Sadishist Sorcerer: Drellion

clickonce's Avatar


clickonce
02.20.2013 , 10:24 AM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by Zataos View Post
haha, keep dreaming, they wouldn't even add a 1 min debuff, and you think your getting a 45 min one?

The quitting is a symptom, not the problem, the problem is unbalanced teams, most people don't need to be steam rolling to not quit of of a warzone, just feel that they have a chance in hell to win. Installing a matchmaker is the only solution to reduce quitting.
Well at least one person in this thread gets it.
-----------------------------------
Inspiring rage-quits since 2001.

Atramar's Avatar


Atramar
02.20.2013 , 10:26 AM | #35
Sometimes it's a good thing. last night I joined huttball, it was 0:2, 9 min left, 6 minutes later we won 6:2 with 3 solo scores by yours trully, 2 assissts with guy who joined wz 15 seconds after me, and 1 score I don't know how since I died..

if we had quitter debuff, these 2 bads who we replaced would still be in that game.
Tracer Legacy, The Red Eclipse.
Not reading colored text, it hurts my eyes. Sorry (unless it's a dev post)
L55:Sniper,Operative,Juggernaut,Assassin,Marauder, Powertech,Guardian,Commando,Scoundrel
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Edonidd's Avatar


Edonidd
02.20.2013 , 10:32 AM | #36
You know who never has to backfill? 4 man premade teams. Maybe a handful of people have ever had to backfill while in a premade before, while those who solo can sometimes have 5-6 in a row on some nights. 2 days ago I logged on, backfilled 6 straight matches, 3 of which were 3 capped against me and another was losing 5-0 in Huttball. Fun.

Another case of the rich getting richer.

islander's Avatar


islander
02.20.2013 , 10:51 AM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by Sadishist View Post
It's called Ranked WZ. Quitters are selfish people who are thinking only of themselves and inconsiderate of others.
False.


The day they allow solo or 4-man queueing for ranked warzone will be the day I agree with this.
There are literally hundreds of ranked caliber PvPers on every server who cannot do ranked PvP because of the 8-man requirement, combined with something resembling a competitive group composition.

I do normals because I have no other practical choice. I even joined a monsterously large guild (previous to this one) in hopes that they could at least put together two ranked teams. Yeah - no such luck.
Gėllies Erimosi, Imperial Deadeye
<Hex> Prophecy of the Five

islander's Avatar


islander
02.20.2013 , 10:53 AM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by Edonidd View Post
You know who never has to backfill? 4 man premade teams. Maybe a handful of people have ever had to backfill while in a premade before, while those who solo can sometimes have 5-6 in a row on some nights. 2 days ago I logged on, backfilled 6 straight matches, 3 of which were 3 capped against me and another was losing 5-0 in Huttball. Fun.

Another case of the rich getting richer.
Yeah, but on the other hand, if 3-4 in a group join your warzone, you can be pretty certain, win or lose, they won't quit in the middle. So there is stability that goes with it for the other 4 puggers.
Gėllies Erimosi, Imperial Deadeye
<Hex> Prophecy of the Five

ktkenshinx's Avatar


ktkenshinx
02.20.2013 , 11:25 AM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by Sadishist View Post
To be fair to everyone, one minute of one person's wasted time is never over 3x more than one minute of another person's wasted time. No one is 3 times more important than another person. Also keep in record that the 10 people may waste more than 1 minute each (each was in queue for 5 minutes, 25 seconds to load the warzone, 5 seconds to analyze the situation, then 30 seconds to load back to whatever planet they were on and queue up again... that's a total of 60 minutes of time wasted!!!!!!). Also to be fair, 100% the wasted time morally belongs to the original person, since rest don't have control of full match.
In your explanation you are just trying to compare wasted time in minutes. That is not a fair analysis, nor a utilitarian one, because wasted time is not valued equally by people. Small wastes of time are mildly annoying. Large wastes of time are extremely annoying. I am comparing the utility and disutility (happiness and unhappiness) that people experience with each unit of wasted time.

So no, no one is more important than anyone else. The total net happiness is what is important. The more time is wasted in the WZ itself, the more extreme unhappiness that first person accrues. Backloggers who join the game, even after waiting 5 minutes, can still immediately leave with only mild unhappiness. This keeps the total net utility higher than if that one person sat around in game fuming. Sure, some of the backloggers might be more than mildly annoyed at wasting 5 minutes to join a game, but to those people I would say "Think of the guy who already left and how much unhappiness he was feeling".

As I said earlier, at the very least, the utility scale is balanced. But it's probably on the side of the leaver just because of how much unhappiness people feel in a losing WZ as compared to the truly mild irritation of just joining an already lost game that can quickly be quit.

A leaver is not just thinking of himself. He is thinking that, by staying, he incurs X units of suffering. The backloggers, however, will only incur <X units of total suffering. Therefore, to keep total happiness maximized, he leaves.

Now, if I had to guess, it seems that you just do not believe in a utilitarian ethical system. That's totally fine. A lot of people don't either (I'm not crazy about it TBH). It is absolutely not the end-all, be-all way to look at the question. I merely offer it to show that the question of WZ-Leaving is ethically ambiguous.
Quote:
Also to be fair, 100% the wasted time morally belongs to the original person, since rest don't have control of full match.
Untrue. As many people have pointed out, players leave games when other players on their team do stupid stuff. They don't call incs. They fight off nodes. They overextended. They tunnelvision on a healer. They let ball carriers charge them in endzones. They leave their node to get DPS. In each case (especially when you look at the cases collectively), the wasted time really belongs to the people who lost the WZ. The leaver, provided that he genuinely did nothing wrong (which isn't always the case), is not to blame for his teammates' ineptitude.

This alone might give him moral reason to leave.
The Outlaw Miyke Fink: Scrapper, Prophecy of the Five
See you, space cowboys!: Formerly of Brown Coats
---THE SCRAPPER'S HANDBOOK: A PvP Guide---

Maraxuss's Avatar


Maraxuss
02.20.2013 , 12:08 PM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by DarkSaberMaster View Post
Yeah. You keep thinking that. And if hell freezes over and they do institute that, don't come to the forums crying about people camping at the node getting defense medals, not contributing to the fight because they can't leave the WZ.
I don't see why people don't see this debuff coming. Swtors taken many of its systems and designs from WoW, no one can deny that. If anyone remembers wow, it was a 30 min debuff for leaving a pvp zone....and that even includes THE YEARS where there were 40 alliance vs 15 horde in alterac valley, and all horde wanted to leave and re-que because it was fruitless. (though eventually it evened back out after the lich king came out)

So at that point, people in a lossing match did just what you described, went next to a tree and stayed there the whole match, and went and watched tv or made a sandwich, if the team won GREAT, you still got rewards too, if not... setiing afk in the battleground was no worse than setting afk in the city because of the debuff.

They stopped that action too, people were then allowed to mark you afk, and basically boot you from the battleground, you had like 30 seconds to respond by getting tagged in combat etc.

People act like this debuff thing has only been talked about in swtor, and its never been implemented anywhere else. Not only has its design been implemented, but has been done so by the king of mmo's. It's just a matter of time before it happens here.
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