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Expertise system

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ebado's Avatar


ebado
02.20.2013 , 04:33 PM | #51
Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy_reborn View Post
sigh what?

PvE gear should not be viable in PvP. that is the entire point of expertise and having 2 separate gearing systems
I don't think you understood the post. It said top end PvE gear will be worse than top end PvP. I even bolded it. I'll do it again.

Quote: Originally Posted by RobHinkle View Post
That's basically correct. There is a certain item rating level that once an individual item slot goes over that rating, it starts only getting expertise for its bolster (no more "PvE" stats). As the item rating continues to rise, you get less and less expertise until eventually bolster doesn't get anything from that item. The result should be that in the best PvE gear, you are somewhere between the "introduction bolster" level and the top end PvP gear in power. You would still be better off swapping to PvP gear if you have it, but you aren't terrible.

Also worth pointing out that this system works on an individual item basis, so each slot itself is bolstered up independently of all of the other slots on a character, so slots can give more of a bolster bonus than others if you have a really powerful item in your chest slot, as an example, but a really behind the curve implant.
Now I'll narrow it down even more:

Quote: Originally Posted by RobHinkle View Post
You would still be better off swapping to PvP gear if you have it, but you aren't terrible.
This is exactly how it works with PvP gear in PvE by the way.
kolto and corrosives
window legacy - the bastion

Okamakiri's Avatar


Okamakiri
02.20.2013 , 04:34 PM | #52
Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy_reborn View Post
and until rob comes back and corrects his statement that PvE gear will be more balanced against PvP gear in Warzones (more health vs more damage taken), it doesnt matter how anyone else on this forum tries to clarify it for him.

any attempt to balance PvE gear for PvP is ridiculous anyways. PvP gear is for PvP. is that not the purpose of expertise? to discourage people from using PvE gear? why bother with expertise if youre attempting to balance PvE gear against PvP gear? that defeats the purpose......

from what he says it sounds like PvP gear is having all of its endurance reworked, so that there is a significant gap between PvP health pools and PvE health pools. this has 2 negative effects. 1, it will further lower TTK. less health = die faster to burst. 2, full PvE gear should not be, even in the most slightest, most remote fashion, viable for use in PvP.
Tanking 101:

higher HP pool + lower damage reduction < lower HP pool + higher damage reduction

Ask any PVP healer who they prefer healing, a PVE geared tank or a PVP geared one. PVP gear will still be superior to PVE gear in every way.

The change will only make PVE gear actually usable in PVP, the same way PVP gear is usable and IS used daily in PVE.
Blackburn - Assassin, Dovahkėėn - Marauder, Zarakė - Jugernaut, Hamza - Mercenary, Smith - Sniper

darthdirtyj's Avatar


darthdirtyj
02.20.2013 , 04:35 PM | #53
I'm glad you guys finally decided to do something with the expertise but I don't think this was the way to fix it. Back before 1.2 when expertise was a flat rate stat increase meaning Damage Boost Damage Reduction and Heal boost were 20% across the board in full battlemaster, Warzones were a lot more balanced, however people complained that healers were unkillable so you guys switched the system to what it is now.

Here is a possible solution to the system. Remove the healing boost from expertise and remove the Damage boost. That way the only difference is player damage reduction. That way the people in full min max EWH like myself will still have best gear so no one feels cheating but the people still in recruit don't get utterly annihilated because there damage reduction doesn't scale to our damage boost output.

Granted I understand that's what you are trying to do with this new revision of bolster but I think it would be far simpler to try the avenue which I have just mentioned. I was an arena Junkie in wow since Season 1 and spend majority of my MMO play time in pvp. I'd really like to see the pvp system in this game get fixed because I have friends who got behind the gear curve and are sick of getting destroyed in 3 hits because of their gear.

Just Something to think about

ebado's Avatar


ebado
02.20.2013 , 04:38 PM | #54
Quote: Originally Posted by darthdirtyj View Post
Here is a possible solution to the system. Remove the healing boost from expertise and remove the Damage boost. That way the only difference is player damage reduction. That way the people in full min max EWH like myself will still have best gear so no one feels cheating but the people still in recruit don't get utterly annihilated because there damage reduction doesn't scale to our damage boost output.
Damage boost and damage reduction cancel each other out. If you remove damage boost, healers become unkillable again. Yes, even without the healing boost.
kolto and corrosives
window legacy - the bastion

HighCounsil's Avatar


HighCounsil
02.20.2013 , 04:38 PM | #55
Quote: Originally Posted by darthdirtyj View Post
I'm glad you guys finally decided to do something with the expertise but I don't think this was the way to fix it. Back before 1.2 when expertise was a flat rate stat increase meaning Damage Boost Damage Reduction and Heal boost were 20% across the board in full battlemaster, Warzones were a lot more balanced, however people complained that healers were unkillable so you guys switched the system to what it is now.

Here is a possible solution to the system. Remove the healing boost from expertise and remove the Damage boost. That way the only difference is player damage reduction. That way the people in full min max EWH like myself will still have best gear so no one feels cheating but the people still in recruit don't get utterly annihilated because there damage reduction doesn't scale to our damage boost output.

Granted I understand that's what you are trying to do with this new revision of bolster but I think it would be far simpler to try the avenue which I have just mentioned. I was an arena Junkie in wow since Season 1 and spend majority of my MMO play time in pvp. I'd really like to see the pvp system in this game get fixed because I have friends who got behind the gear curve and are sick of getting destroyed in 3 hits because of their gear.

Just Something to think about
With the way you suggest, nobody will be killable, not only the healers. Just think about it, 20% dmg reduction against unboosted dmg. What is it, 2.5k maximum hits on the strongest attacks, 500dmg vs bubbles and adrenals ))?

darthdirtyj's Avatar


darthdirtyj
02.20.2013 , 04:39 PM | #56
Quote: Originally Posted by ebado View Post
Damage boost and damage reduction cancel each other out. If you remove damage boost, healers become unkillable again. Yes, even without the healing boost.
They don't because there is still the 30% heal debuff in warzones. It's been in the game forever

cashogy_reborn's Avatar


cashogy_reborn
02.20.2013 , 04:40 PM | #57
Quote: Originally Posted by ebado View Post
I don't think you understood the post. It said top end PvE gear will be worse than top end PvP. I even bolded it. I'll do it again.



Now I'll narrow it down even more:



This is exactly how it works with PvP gear in PvE by the way.
then why bother with expertise or 2 completely separate gearing systems in the first place?
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ebado's Avatar


ebado
02.20.2013 , 04:41 PM | #58
Quote: Originally Posted by darthdirtyj View Post
They don't because there is still the 30% heal debuff in warzones. It's been in the game forever
I know. Even with trauma and no healing boost, if you just start giving players flat damage reduction for expertise, time to kill just goes up and up and up. Healers heal less but have more time to keep people alive. Really not a good idea.
kolto and corrosives
window legacy - the bastion

ebado's Avatar


ebado
02.20.2013 , 04:42 PM | #59
Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy_reborn View Post
then why bother with expertise or 2 completely separate gearing systems in the first place?
Why bother with expertise, the stat that makes PvP gear better in PvP than PvE gear? Is that your question?

I'm having trouble identifying at which point you are getting misled in this statement.
kolto and corrosives
window legacy - the bastion

HighCounsil's Avatar


HighCounsil
02.20.2013 , 04:46 PM | #60
Quote: Originally Posted by ebado View Post
Why bother with expertise, the stat that makes PvP gear better in PvP than PvE gear? Is that your question?

I'm having trouble identifying at which point you are getting misled in this statement.
That's because you haven't really been reading the thread, and still don't realise that the way it's going to work is that every player will have to max out on expertise, where it will effectively cancel each other out.