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Expertise system

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cashogy_reborn's Avatar


cashogy_reborn
02.20.2013 , 03:33 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by TUXs View Post
Thank you Rob!!!

Is Bolster an ongoing calculation, or is it determined upon entry into a warzone? I ask because I worry that a player could abuse the new system by equipping lvl 10 green gear, then once the fight begins, switch to his EWH set.
Bolster had better not be in end-game PvP. so that situation would be irrelevant.

and why are expertise formulas being redone *again*? just seems like an unnecessary step. you could have just given WH, EWH and Recruit Mk2 the same amount of expertise; your desired result would have been the same.

unless the point is to stop the use of PvE armorings in PvP for min/max purposes. in which case, that may or may not work depending on how much expertise you get per point
Dany - Attomm - Dan'y - Fogel
The Original Stormborn Commando Representative
The King of Bads

RobHinkle's Avatar


RobHinkle
02.20.2013 , 03:35 PM | #12 Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread. Next  
Quote: Originally Posted by TUXs View Post
Thank you Rob!!!

Is Bolster an ongoing calculation, or is it determined upon entry into a warzone? I ask because I worry that a player could abuse the new system by equipping lvl 10 green gear, then once the fight begins, switch to his EWH set.
It is ongoing, to prevent exactly the abuse you are worried about.
Rob Hinkle | Senior Designer
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Okamakiri's Avatar


Okamakiri
02.20.2013 , 03:37 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by RobHinkle View Post
That's basically correct. There is a certain item rating level that once an individual item slot goes over that rating, it starts only getting expertise for its bolster (no more "PvE" stats). As the item rating continues to rise, you get less and less expertise until eventually bolster doesn't get anything from that item. The result should be that in the best PvE gear, you are somewhere between the "introduction bolster" level and the top end PvP gear in power. You would still be better off swapping to PvP gear if you have it, but you aren't terrible.

Also worth pointing out that this system works on an individual item basis, so each slot itself is bolstered up independently of all of the other slots on a character, so slots can give more of a bolster bonus than others if you have a really powerful item in your chest slot, as an example, but a really behind the curve implant.
Thanks for responding. However, if I'm interpreting your response correctly, that means that top end PVE gear would receive none or next to none expertise. This, as you put it, would put us somewhere between "introduction bolster" level and top end PVP gear in power, but only on damage output. The damage reduction provided by expertise cannot be replicated by any PVE stats, and thus PVE gear would still be far inferior to PVP gear. Now, I don't think any PVE'er would try to argue that their gear should be equally viable in PVP as PVP gear. However, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect it to be at least competitive by performing as good as PVP gear a tier below it (i.e. DG, which is equivalent of EWH, performing at WH level in PVP). Thanks
Blackburn - Assassin, Dovahkėėn - Marauder, Zarakė - Jugernaut, Hamza - Mercenary, Smith - Sniper

cashogy_reborn's Avatar


cashogy_reborn
02.20.2013 , 03:39 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by RobHinkle View Post
It is ongoing, to prevent exactly the abuse you are worried about.
so this means that bolster IS going to be added into level 50 warzones?
Dany - Attomm - Dan'y - Fogel
The Original Stormborn Commando Representative
The King of Bads

Monterone's Avatar


Monterone
02.20.2013 , 03:39 PM | #15
Wow, you guys are really replying and sharing more and more lately, it is well appreciated!

Can't wait to see how the changes to expertise play out. Are there any plans to lengthen the time-to-kill through the manipulation of expertise stats?
Sominette . Saminette
Pot5 > Harbinger

Polebreaker's Avatar


Polebreaker
02.20.2013 , 03:41 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy_reborn View Post
so this means that bolster IS going to be added into level 50 warzones?
Probably into the 50-55 bracket, since there's not enough people for a 50-54 bracket and then a 55 only tier. Which sucks either way you slice it.

GalnarDegana's Avatar


GalnarDegana
02.20.2013 , 03:42 PM | #17
Since this is going to vastly improve PUG situations, would it be feasible to expect that Ranked Solo queues are closer to being implemented?

cashogy_reborn's Avatar


cashogy_reborn
02.20.2013 , 03:45 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Polebreaker View Post
Probably into the 50-55 bracket, since there's not enough people for a 50-54 bracket and then a 55 only tier. Which sucks either way you slice it.
that is a terrible way to do that.

you cannot group players that a) dont have all their abilities and b) all their talent points spent. that is innately unbalanced and will destroy any semblance of competitive PvP in this game.

however, the new bolster as RobHinkle outlined would allow a 10-34 and 35-54 bracket as was speculated based on datamined info. which leaves level 55 players in the same spot that 50s are at now
Dany - Attomm - Dan'y - Fogel
The Original Stormborn Commando Representative
The King of Bads

UberDuberSoldat's Avatar


UberDuberSoldat
02.20.2013 , 03:45 PM | #19
Rob, can you comment on what the new total maximum expertise achievable will be?

Currently it's what, 1395?

With the changes you're mentioning and the removal of diminishing returns, this implies all PvP players will want to max expertise on every gear set.

HighCounsil's Avatar


HighCounsil
02.20.2013 , 03:47 PM | #20
What's being sad here is the following, as I see it personally:
a) There will be no point not to have maximum expertise anymore, as by eliminating DR they effectively eliminate that slight possible advantage you could get by stacking up power/endurance with crystals and/or 63 mainhand barrels/hilts. Unless the gains will be reworked from scratch to the point of being considerably lower than they are right now or there is a hard cap introduced.
The problem I'm seeing here is that while grinding up to that maximum expertise, you will (probably) be severely gapped against someone who is already at max, and that would throw us back to the past where we had up and coming players being unhappy about being dominated by those who have already reached their maximum. Again, it is hard to be certain without operating any live numbers, but if we consider what's already been introduced to the game and the current feature implementation we can talk about possibility of such a gap.
Another interesting thing to note is that by making everyone max out on their expertise, all the players will be pretty much "equal" statwise, whereas right now some variety exists. If the plan is exactly how it seems right now, going for any pve mods would be counter-productive, just as well as being lower-than-maximum expertise.
Personally I see this as a good thing, because for PVP to become entirely skill based, there shouldn't be a random factor of one playing being superior to the other solely due to having a better equipped character. Equalization would make people think more of how they use their skills rather than what number pops up when they go all out with their most powerful attacks. In this case though I'm not entirely certain what would the point of expertise still be. If it's the equalization that is the goal, then simply discarding expertise and going with pve gear would produce the same effect as if everyone maxes out on it.
b) Bolster is another interesting change, and what immediately caught my attention was "what we think is the entry level to pvp". One thing that's been proven other the last months is that Bioware's understanding of pvp differs from players in a variety of ways, so I'd recommend to be careful with something like your feelings.
Another interesting sentense is "Additionally, the bolster system will now grant players expertise when it feels it is necessary, bringing our entry-level power gap even closer to the end-game PvP power." Which seems to be Bioware's answer (again, I might be thinking too deep into things) to the current layer of "problematic" players who completely neglect the need of expertise, use pve gear and things like that. Obviously, I don't think this is intended for pre-endgame, thus Bolster would apply to endgame pvp from now on (perhaps only in the expertise field, but who knows).

All in all I can't say I'm not excited about the changes, I just hope that it doesn't put us back months in the past with the huge gaps between the players. Latest gear changes brought some stability to pvp, and I wouldn't like it to change for the worse. PVP in this game is fragile, and any change should be approached with care.