Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer

Expertise system

First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Tarn_Sirun's Avatar

02.21.2013 , 11:00 AM | #131
Quote: Originally Posted by islander View Post
LOL, sure it does. There's no possible way I'd crit a sage for 7k on my ambush if it didn't. Just happened again last night. armor debuff --> laze target --> snipe (autocrit) --> expl probe --> ambush (crit)--> follow through (crit) --> dead sage from full health in pve gear
Quote: Originally Posted by xxIncubixx View Post
yes it does
These three screenshots might shock you then, as they are of a customer service ticket that clearly states it doesnt.

Tankqull's Avatar

02.21.2013 , 11:11 AM | #132
Quote: Originally Posted by RobHinkle View Post
You've got the crux of the idea, but I think when you are able to see all the items it will be more clear. Fundamentally, PvP gear will have lower stats then PvE gear (expertise excluded), including endurance. So high end PvE gear characters will have bigger health pools, but take more damage. The result of this interaction should get us to point of balance between the gear sets we are shooting for.
turning the system by a 180 what are you doing to make pvpler as "viable" in pve as pveler in pvp? will there be any boosting system in pve as well or are primarily pvping people just left behind when they want to pve for what ever reason?

Kilora's Avatar

02.21.2013 , 12:59 PM | #133
I've read a lot of posts from people on both sides, and I disagree largely with all of you.

I should've have to sit through 50 WZ matches in 1 week where I'm killed in seconds. It makes it unenjoyable, and I just won't do it. Simple. I don't expect to be given crazy gear -- and I honestly don't really care about the pvp gear. I'd like to queue up a few times a week, have a semi-enjoyable time, and be done. I don't need to win, or even be amazing, in order to have fun. But dead in 2 seconds every time I enter combat? Rediculous.

Isn't the point of ranked warzones to play against hardcore pvpers? Maybe it should be more similar to OPS -- in endgame PVP, we have Story Mode, Hard Mode, and Nightmare mode (with a 4th coming, apparently?). A "fresh" 50 with a lot of class knowledge and skill could walk into a SM with other good players and not get facerolled. Then it's gear-grinding time in order to progress into HM and NiM, or new tiers.

Shouldn't WZ's be the same? A fresh 50 should be able to walk into "Tier 1" pvp, and have some type of chance if they're skilled, but not be able to do a "Tier 2".

I will gladly work through and pay my blood and sweat for crazy epic PVP gear, just as I do in PVE....but there has to be some curve.

Interestingly enough, I wonder if 99% of the problem is related to TTD, as one person already said. If everyone has a low TTD, that seems like much more of a problem than any "gear" gap.

And as a final note -- if the highest PVP gear is viable in PVE, shouldn't the highest PVE gear be viable in PVP? Why on earth do people thing PVPers deserve to walk into PVE and instantly have decent gear, but PVEers shouldn't be able to?

TL;DR - Fresh 50's should be able to play without dying every 2 seconds. Doesn't mean you have to hand em gear, or devalue the elite pvp gear.

Jagangla's Avatar

02.21.2013 , 01:17 PM | #134
I suggest making PvP gear unequippable in ops. PvE gear unequippable in warzones. problem solved, everyone stops crying from jealousy issues. I agree, make warzones separate tiers. that would be awesome. Once past a certain amount of expertise, new tier.
Christyna lvl 50 Operative

DarthOvertone's Avatar

02.21.2013 , 01:20 PM | #135
Quote: Originally Posted by RobHinkle View Post

The bigger change is in how we bolster and add stats to players to even out the playing field. Instead of focusing on player level, now the bolster system will take a look at each individual item on your character and use that as the baseline assumption of power for that item slot. We then bolster each slot up to what we feel is the "entry level" of PvP power, at which we think everyone can be happy playing without getting simply out geared to death. Effectively, we bolster players to something like what our recruit gear set tries to do now in 1.7, but with much better accuracy and effect. Additionally, the bolster system will now grant players expertise when it feels it is necessary, bringing our entry-level power gap even closer to the end-game PvP power.
Wow. You weren't kidding. A lot of changes incoming to Expertise. Everything sounds like you guys are moving in the right direction, making fights more about skill than gear. I applaud you for that effort.

I have a question about the new Bolster-based normalization that will occur in 2.0. Based on what you are describing above, it sounds like the new Bolster will now come with itemized norms for stats. If everything is going to be boosted based on these built-in norms, what is the incentive to min/max, if at all?

I mean, if my toon is going to be bolstered stat-wise to where you think he should be anyway, why should I bother with any min/maxing. Sounds to me like all I really need to do is get my class's PvP set and just be done. This could turn out to be a good thing, btw. lol
Alphanoob, Alpha-zen (among others) - Garbage S1 Champion
Ebon Hawk | Harbinger
SWTOR 4.3: It was good while it lasted. Thanks BW

foxmob's Avatar

02.21.2013 , 01:37 PM | #136
Quote: Originally Posted by Tankqull View Post
turning the system by a 180 what are you doing to make pvpler as "viable" in pve as pveler in pvp? will there be any boosting system in pve as well or are primarily pvping people just left behind when they want to pve for what ever reason?
that's what story modes are for. I know. it's bogus. but that's precisely what story mode ops are for. I'm as 100% positive that that is the official BW line as one can be w/o knowing. it makes perfect sense. there is very little in the way of tiered pvp. pve has sm, hm, nm. in order for a pve person to experience pvp at all, there are only two choices: regs and rated. if pve gear is the equivalent of recruit, then they'd get slaughtered in a rated match on gear alone. thus, they're given a boost in order to make reg wz's playable.

I'm not necessarily endorsing this system, but I think it's a pretty clear rationale.
JC -- Harb -- TEH

MarvelZombie's Avatar

02.21.2013 , 01:41 PM | #137
Quote: Originally Posted by Tankqull View Post
turning the system by a 180 what are you doing to make pvpler as "viable" in pve as pveler in pvp? will there be any boosting system in pve as well or are primarily pvping people just left behind when they want to pve for what ever reason?
Are you kidding me? High-end (EWH) PvP gear is already on par with all but the highest tier (DG) PvE gear. I forget to take my PvP gear off in HMs and don't even notice. This is about making it more equal both ways:

  • PvP gear will be (and is currently) solid enough to play in appropriately tiered PvE content, but PvE gear will always be superior
  • PvE gear will be (is NOT now) solid enough to play in appropriately tiered PvP content, but PvP gear will always be superior

Are you upset that they are making PvP as accessible with PvE gear as PvE is with PvP gear? If so....why are you upset?

T-Assassin's Avatar

02.21.2013 , 02:23 PM | #138
Quote: Originally Posted by Polebreaker View Post
If the goal is to piss off what's left of your hardcore pvp community by rendering all their carefully min/maxxed gear meaningless, then you will surely succeed.
this is actually one of the most important underlying issues that was ruining my SWTOR PvP and end-game PvE experience. other than the obvious gross imbalance of the classes, server connectivity, and bugs.

this game is like a chocolate bunny. delicious shell, hollow in the middle. great game, dumbed down.

there's little challenge to acquiring gear, creating a spec (all cookie cutter), or balancing your stats (min/max).

been here since launch, it's getting "easier" and "easier". from bags to free PvP gear giveaways!! (oh and free valor giveaway...i'm still bitter )

now u can PvP in PvE gear...and do well?!! idk...can i buy raid gear thru PvP? or gain a buff to run OPs in PvP gear? or, can i just get a free set of PvP AND PvE gear with purchase of RotH? oooo, better yet, can i just buy them thru CC? church and state are PvE and PvP should be!!

idk, guess i just expect more.
"Ib'tuur jatne tuur ash'ad kyr'amur."
"Today is a good day for someone else to die." -

DarthBama's Avatar

02.21.2013 , 04:45 PM | #139
So will pre-level 50's have access to mods with Expertise on them now, or will we get expertise based on the quality of the mods in our equipment? If it is the later, then I better get cracking on my 41 twink (I've been kind of lazy on my purple mods).

Heezdedjim's Avatar

02.21.2013 , 04:56 PM | #140
Quote: Originally Posted by RobHinkle View Post
That's basically correct. There is a certain item rating level that once an individual item slot goes over that rating, it starts only getting expertise for its bolster (no more "PvE" stats). As the item rating continues to rise, you get less and less expertise until eventually bolster doesn't get anything from that item. The result should be that in the best PvE gear, you are somewhere between the "introduction bolster" level and the top end PvP gear in power. You would still be better off swapping to PvP gear if you have it, but you aren't terrible.
So, you said old PvP gear won't be quite on par. Where in this spectrum would a full set of Recruit Mk-2 fall in? Will it be the worst possible choice, or will it fall in somewhere else on the spectrum between crappy PvE leveling greens and the new "entry level" PvP sets?

Also, does the calculation you're talking about depend on "rating" only (the nominal stat determined by the barrel, hilt, armoring, etc.), or do you mean it looks at every mod in every slot of every shell you're wearing? So, for instance, how do augments factor into this calculation (or do they)?

And will the "bolster" calculations be reflected in the stats we see in the character sheet while standing on fleet? Or will we only be able to see our "live" stats while we're standing in a warzone?