Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Expertise system

First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Polebreaker's Avatar


Polebreaker
02.20.2013 , 11:01 PM | #101
Quote: Originally Posted by RageFury View Post
Yes, but it doesn't have to be gear. God forbid they make war zones actually enjoyable to all people in terms of content; not forcing automatic losses 95% of the time to people that queue solo whenever they go up against a premade. Well, we don't need "teh 1337 purpz" to be the goal of PvP, either. Gear is a lame way to reward a lot of PvP, and those that truly love it are the ones that have groups to PvP with so they can win all the time. Even the the worst baddies in the world can get the best PvP gear, because it's just a grind. It also makes the playing field uneven. There are all kinds of rewards they could make that don't involve MOAR ENDRRRANCE AND XPURRTEEZ. How about, normalize all of it so it's a fair situation that depends on skill, and not which person has teh better purpz?

Make sick-looking armor sets that you have to PvP a ton to get. Forget stats. Make PvP even. The mechanic is already in the game, just force normalization at all levels.

MMORPGs need to get away from the whole "gear is all that matters" mindset. I can't stand it, and it wasn't that way before WoW came along.
What you are describing is essentially GW2's s-pvp. I'm not sure how popular it is these days compared to wvwvw, but I did try it some and it was decent... but the maps kinda sucked and were smaller than swtor's if you can believe it. Anyways, been a while since I tried it.

And I'm basically not averse to looks being the carrot. Totally fine with me, I'm just not sure its too late in swtor's game to make such a fundamental shift...?

cultivatedmass's Avatar


cultivatedmass
02.20.2013 , 11:04 PM | #102
Quote: Originally Posted by ebado View Post
22k in level 50 gear.
expect the damage to be even higher in 55 to compensate for more hp.

Nicolettexiv's Avatar


Nicolettexiv
02.20.2013 , 11:11 PM | #103
Quote: Originally Posted by HighCounsil View Post
All in all I can't say I'm not excited about the changes, I just hope that it doesn't put us back months in the past with the huge gaps between the players. Latest gear changes brought some stability to pvp, and I wouldn't like it to change for the worse. PVP in this game is fragile, and any change should be approached with care.
I think this is intended to resolve the issue of players who have full sets of EWH completely dominating those in lower tiers, without necessarily needing the skill to back it up. A player fully equipped in recruit is bound to be repeatedly steamrolled by those in WH/WEH in their attempts to build a PvP set. I think the idea is to have players focused on skill, rotations, and utility, rather than depending on gear. Which means people won't actively avoid PvP because of their lack of gear. This could possibly result in greater numbers of players getting involved in PvP.

For those who have full EWH and are displeased at the idea of losing that significant advantage, you'll still be able to destroy those who are clueless, and yet it won't be a complete, guaranteed faceroll anymore. Meaning, you'll still have a challenge (without it, it's boring) and you'll have to use actual skill.

I don't think this is a bad thing, and it sounds much more stable that the current set-up.
Islå, Daenora - Sage - Azaelia - Sorcerer
Nichole, Sloåne - Gunslinger - Nicollete - Operative
Irelis - Sentinel - Iselle - Jugg
Harlow - Commando - Lorelux - Powertech

Nicolettexiv's Avatar


Nicolettexiv
02.20.2013 , 11:22 PM | #104
Quote: Originally Posted by Okamakiri View Post
Try to look at the big picture. Most new players, or PVE players, feel too intimidated by the gear gap in PVP to even give it a try. This leaves the PVP population at best stagnant, or more realistically declining.

As Rob pointed out, PVP gear will still be superior to PVE gear in PVP. Currently, you can use your PVP gear in PVE and do fine in everything but top end ops content. The same cannot be said for PVE gear in even regular WZs.

Ease of acquisition is arguable with ops having weekly lockouts while warzone having no weekly caps on commendations. Crafting skews things a bit, but is not exactly a viable method of gearing for majority of player base. Either way, it's an irrelevant topic when discussing PVP balance and viability of different gear in it.

Your insinuation that PVE'rs would only farm mats instead of trying to win is ludicrous though, since most efficient form of farming would still be winning.
Exactly.

I have heard countless times, everywhere from general to my own guild, that many won't bother to PvP because the gap between recruit and WH/EWH is so huge, that to even bother means getting steamrolled over and over until the player can get some decent gear. Meaning, a large part of PvP dominance is attributed to gear. Many enjoy PvP from 15-49, but stop upon hitting 50 knowing this. Leaving the active PvP populations at 50 stagnant, aside from the few willing to give it a go, despite knowing they'll be largely ineffective.

This change helps bridge that gap - meaning, your PvP gear will still be better. This will, however, increase the number players willing to participate in PvP, they just won't be as easy killed as they are now. They'll have somewhat of a chance.
Islå, Daenora - Sage - Azaelia - Sorcerer
Nichole, Sloåne - Gunslinger - Nicollete - Operative
Irelis - Sentinel - Iselle - Jugg
Harlow - Commando - Lorelux - Powertech

Nicolettexiv's Avatar


Nicolettexiv
02.20.2013 , 11:25 PM | #105
Quote: Originally Posted by Polebreaker View Post
What you are describing is essentially GW2's s-pvp. I'm not sure how popular it is these days compared to wvwvw, but I did try it some and it was decent... but the maps kinda sucked and were smaller than swtor's if you can believe it. Anyways, been a while since I tried it.

And I'm basically not averse to looks being the carrot. Totally fine with me, I'm just not sure its too late in swtor's game to make such a fundamental shift...?
I know a number of avid PvP players who left SWTOR that are in love with GW2's pvp system. Which does effectively bolster stats, making it about PvP and not entirely about gear. Isn't that the point of PvP? Strategy, skill, response timing, utility, knowing your class to prove yourself. You can still acquire better items, better gear, but the system isn't entirely dependent on gear.
Islå, Daenora - Sage - Azaelia - Sorcerer
Nichole, Sloåne - Gunslinger - Nicollete - Operative
Irelis - Sentinel - Iselle - Jugg
Harlow - Commando - Lorelux - Powertech

Nicolettexiv's Avatar


Nicolettexiv
02.20.2013 , 11:35 PM | #106
Quote: Originally Posted by Jagangla View Post
This is my first post since being subbed for over a year, and have not felt passionate enough to comment on anything that anyone has posted on the forums to date....until now.

From my understanding of all this, PvP gear is still BiS for PvP, but only MARGINALLY.

I think some more explanation is needed because I am utterly confused. It seems that to counter expertise, the dev's are using other stats, mainly endurance (Check Rob's post). What am I going to work for? Are you telling me that EWH is how gear is going to be from now on? +1 stat to this, +3 here. ***. I don't like trading minimal stat gains for expertise. I want to WORK my butt off in warzones and EARN my AWESOME gear that puts me in the ELITE category. And being ELITE, I want to roll over a newcomer that just beat the hardest operation in the game. That is PvP!!!!! Oh you want it to be about skill? Do the WORK and get the GEAR, and then lets do the skill game. You can't get the SKILLS without the WORK. Stop giving people that don't put in the WORK a crutch to use to be viable in PvP. Dont be lazy people....and give me my amazing stat increases on my PvP gear!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Silly - the gear, as it exists, makes skill unnecessary. Unless you're a complete failure, which is unlikely as you'd be too demoralized at that point to get the gear. So, to clarify, you want to use skill to earn gear that in turn makes skill unnecessary? PvP isn't about being able to knock everything over with minimal effort or skill. That's PvE, my friend*. The point of PvP is to go against other players, that are responsive and smarter than NPC ai (hopefully...sometimes...). It's about the challenge of defeating someone who can counter your actions. Outsmarting them, employing tactics to outmaneuver them. What's the fun in facerolling everything? It gets old, fast (we lose PvE players for the same reason). Plus, this means with all of that skill you honed, you'll have more fresh meat to grind.

This, because while they will receive the bolster, they still won't be as effective as someone with top tier gear. Meaning, if they beat you, you should probably be ashamed.

*Excepting a few Operations encounters

waznpride's Avatar


waznpride
02.20.2013 , 11:43 PM | #107
This change would give me a reason to go back to PvP. I grinded out WH on my Main many months ago, and didn't bother with the EWH grind because I was solo queueing and getting facerolled by premades all day.

So when my 3rd toon recently hit 50 (leveled 10-50 on pvp only), I didn't want to bother with PvP after 50 because the gear gap would have made things frustrating (and being a fresh 50 healer commando, I was just a sitting duck in every situation), so I didn't bother with PvP after 50. So once this change hits, I think I can finally give PvP a shot and hopefully not get facerolled every match and have some actual skill-based combat instead of gear based.

Jagangla's Avatar


Jagangla
02.21.2013 , 12:24 AM | #108
Silly - the gear, as it exists, makes skill unnecessary. Unless you're a complete failure, which is unlikely as you'd be too demoralized at that point to get the gear. So, to clarify, you want to use skill to earn gear that in turn makes skill unnecessary? PvP isn't about being able to knock everything over with minimal effort or skill. That's PvE, my friend*. The point of PvP is to go against other players, that are responsive and smarter than NPC ai (hopefully...sometimes...). It's about the challenge of defeating someone who can counter your actions. Outsmarting them, employing tactics to outmaneuver them. What's the fun in facerolling everything? It gets old, fast (we lose PvE players for the same reason). Plus, this means with all of that skill you honed, you'll have more fresh meat to grind.

This, because while they will receive the bolster, they still won't be as effective as someone with top tier gear. Meaning, if they beat you, you should probably be ashamed.


I honestly have gotten steamrolled at the early stages, but I paid my dues, and earned my gear the good old fashioned way. When you finally get that kill on that WH geared smash monkey and your in half Battlemaster (at the time the grind was harder than right now) it feels GREAT! What a sense of accomplishment. Ha I beat you, you better geared fool, and now wait until I get gear! This feeling will go away.
To people who quit PvP because they can't take a beating, please, don't PvP. I hate complainer's and quitters in Warzones. People ask me "Why are you still attacking the node, we lost?" I say "Never Give UP!!!!!" War is War, not meant for lazy people who want things given to them on a silver platter. Woe is this PvP community when PvE'ers get involved. I LOVE PvP against EWH geared players because I LOVE challenges. Sure, pugs are sad, but you know what, they are earning their due. Come into the higher echelon of people who've taken a beating to get where they are now, and when you stand on their head and spit at their corpse, you can laugh and feel a sense of pride and accomplishment, for not being a pansy and complaining and quitting. I welcome YOU regular PvP community, not the new PvE community integrating into PvP!!!! You never start out in the service as a general, you start as a recruit!!!!!! EARN IT!!!
Christyna lvl 50 Operative

Jagangla's Avatar


Jagangla
02.21.2013 , 12:30 AM | #109
Oh yeah, in my bloodlust I forgot to address the OP post. Ummm smaller gear gap stinks. Make em work for it like I did. k bye
Christyna lvl 50 Operative

Izorii's Avatar


Izorii
02.21.2013 , 12:32 AM | #110
I really dont like the expertise system. While it is in game I think it will turn a lot of casual players off PvP and stop a lot of PvE players trying it. I have read the developer posts about expertise but I think it will take a lot to convince people new to lv 50 (or soon to be 55) to think PvP is something they can just jump in and have fun and not just be killed over and over due to being completly out geared, same goes for experianced PvE players who might want to try it.