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Something i've never quite understood...

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Something i've never quite understood...

Kelan's Avatar


Kelan
02.18.2013 , 04:27 AM | #1
*This is all from a PvP perspective*

Right to it then. I may be missing something so if i am someone please explain:

It seems that the classes that do the most damage and consistently hit the hardest(Jugg, Powertech, Sins (and all their republic counterparts)) also happen to have an absurd amount of crowd control (moreso than most classes), are also very tanky with strong defensive cooldowns, and also have great utility. They can also taunt without being in their defensive stance, which one AoE taunt can mean three free medals. The majority of their abilities are instant as well, hitting far harder than any channeled or cast time ability (again, makes no sense) I'm a little confused why these classes seem so much better in nearly every aspect than others.

When i look at classes like snipers and sorcs, which are capable of a lot, i notice it comes with a price. A sorc or sniper will go down extremely quickly when focused, but these other ones will not. There appears to be no trade off to the insane amount of damage, utility, crowd control, and tankiness they have. If there is, please enlighten me.

Since these types of threads are usually met with hostile responses, i'll state that i play a pyrotech mercenary. I'm not the best, but i'm certainly not the worst. Full WH gear. I cannot tank anything, i have one stun (the missle is on a two sec cast time, so only useful when the instant cast ability is up), and my two hardest hitting abilities both critting dont add up to a single smash.

Help? Am i doing it wrong? Did i pick the wrong class? Am i missing something? Thanks!

Lalainnia's Avatar


Lalainnia
02.18.2013 , 04:43 AM | #2
You picked the wrong class, and ya ur right those 3 classes have the most cc and can put out crazy burst while having moderate/high defensive cooldowns meh if u cant beat them join em
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Cretinus's Avatar


Cretinus
02.18.2013 , 06:01 AM | #3
I think the situation is very clear:
PvP and WZs suffer under god-like tanks because BW wants to make tank speccs more popular. Nobody speccs tank for PvE if a respecc is required each time he wants to do some PvP. BW's answer to this is to make tanks speccs viable for PvP too. Problem here is that they exaggerated a little. Tanks in PvP are not only very difficult to kill, they also have an insane DPS output and very high utility. But Rome wasn't built in a day and I'm hoping that this will be fixed soon.
Fortunately, Cretinus is back!

Skolops's Avatar


Skolops
02.18.2013 , 06:22 AM | #4
I think the issue is that you (and others) misunderstand the strength of these various classes. I have 12 characters and have played every advanced class in the game (though not every single faction mirror), most of them in level 50 warzones and 3 of them (Assassin, Guardian, Sniper) in ranked warzones.

From both my experience playing these classes and facing these classes, I can assure you that Snipers and Sorcerers hit significantly harder than Assassin or Jugg tanks, and that Powertechs are glass cannons which melt as easily as sorcs (more easily, even) under focus.

Yes, Assassins in DPS gear can do strong DPS, but they should always fall far behind a sniper, powertech, marauder, or even a DPS specced shadow in both the final damage chart as well as single target burst, so long as they are played by decent players. Yes, Powertechs have some decent crowd control, but they're probably the squishiest DPS class in the game.

It's easy to see the strengths of other classes and overvalue them, or to miss their weaknesses when their strengths are so alluring. In the end, the balance of this game is among the best I've seen. There are a few things that could be tweaked here or there, but as a whole it's really quite remarkable how solid it is.
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EtiMos's Avatar


EtiMos
02.18.2013 , 07:20 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Kelan View Post
*This is all from a PvP perspective*

Right to it then. I may be missing something so if i am someone please explain:

It seems that the classes that do the most damage and consistently hit the hardest(Jugg, Powertech, Sins (and all their republic counterparts)) also happen to have an absurd amount of crowd control (moreso than most classes), are also very tanky with strong defensive cooldowns, and also have great utility. They can also taunt without being in their defensive stance, which one AoE taunt can mean three free medals. The majority of their abilities are instant as well, hitting far harder than any channeled or cast time ability (again, makes no sense) I'm a little confused why these classes seem so much better in nearly every aspect than others.

When i look at classes like snipers and sorcs, which are capable of a lot, i notice it comes with a price. A sorc or sniper will go down extremely quickly when focused, but these other ones will not. There appears to be no trade off to the insane amount of damage, utility, crowd control, and tankiness they have. If there is, please enlighten me.

Since these types of threads are usually met with hostile responses, i'll state that i play a pyrotech mercenary. I'm not the best, but i'm certainly not the worst. Full WH gear. I cannot tank anything, i have one stun (the missle is on a two sec cast time, so only useful when the instant cast ability is up), and my two hardest hitting abilities both critting dont add up to a single smash.

Help? Am i doing it wrong? Did i pick the wrong class? Am i missing something? Thanks!
Snipers,Sorcs and even Pyro mercenaries are all range DPS meaning that they can Dmg people from 30m away and that is the reason that they lack a bit in close quarters combat.If they left alone they can do enormous amounts of Dmg even your Pyro mercenary.They trick is to learn to postition yourself to the right spot and be mobile all they time.

Tactical positioning is your advantage against any other class but don't think that this is something easy to achieve.It reguires experience and lots of WZs.In time your instincts will prevail and they will lead you to the right positions so you can be one of the most dangerous DPS of your team.

Keyran-Halcyon's Avatar


Keyran-Halcyon
02.18.2013 , 09:04 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Kelan View Post
*This is all from a PvP perspective*

Right to it then. I may be missing something so if i am someone please explain:

It seems that the classes that do the most damage and consistently hit the hardest(Jugg, Powertech, Sins (and all their republic counterparts)) also happen to have an absurd amount of crowd control (moreso than most classes), are also very tanky with strong defensive cooldowns, and also have great utility. They can also taunt without being in their defensive stance, which one AoE taunt can mean three free medals. The majority of their abilities are instant as well, hitting far harder than any channeled or cast time ability (again, makes no sense) I'm a little confused why these classes seem so much better in nearly every aspect than others.

When i look at classes like snipers and sorcs, which are capable of a lot, i notice it comes with a price. A sorc or sniper will go down extremely quickly when focused, but these other ones will not. There appears to be no trade off to the insane amount of damage, utility, crowd control, and tankiness they have. If there is, please enlighten me.

Since these types of threads are usually met with hostile responses, i'll state that i play a pyrotech mercenary. I'm not the best, but i'm certainly not the worst. Full WH gear. I cannot tank anything, i have one stun (the missle is on a two sec cast time, so only useful when the instant cast ability is up), and my two hardest hitting abilities both critting dont add up to a single smash.

Help? Am i doing it wrong? Did i pick the wrong class? Am i missing something? Thanks!
Honestly this is because BW is kinda bass ackwards on class balance at the moment. Sadly because these classes have been allowed to remain FOTM for several months now, majority of people play them. I can honestly say now a days I feel like most Wz's are filled with mainly Smashers, bubblestunners, and Vanguards/PT's.

And you are also right that so many posts on this forum are all the standard "I play X number of classes and I KNOW none of these classes are OP" or "I play this class and I own all the time, you need to L2P". None of these posts really offer any constructive thoughts or criticism, they are just there because people like to boost their own ego.

Truth is BW needs to adjust class balance and they should have done it awhile ago, but they have gotten caught up with F2P, cartel market and the Gree event. So we are left waiting till the expansion in hopes that will correct some of these issues.
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LanceCorporalDan's Avatar


LanceCorporalDan
02.18.2013 , 09:11 AM | #7
Did someone say PTs have lots of cc and high defensives and survivabity?
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Maraxuss's Avatar


Maraxuss
02.18.2013 , 09:37 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Cretinus View Post
I think the situation is very clear:
PvP and WZs suffer under god-like tanks because BW wants to make tank speccs more popular. Nobody speccs tank for PvE if a respecc is required each time he wants to do some PvP. BW's answer to this is to make tanks speccs viable for PvP too. Problem here is that they exaggerated a little. Tanks in PvP are not only very difficult to kill, they also have an insane DPS output and very high utility. But Rome wasn't built in a day and I'm hoping that this will be fixed soon.
Are you on crack? Seriously? Insane DPS as a tank....lololololol. Very difficult to kill..lololol. DPS can use the same taunts i can, and A tank gives up about 80% of its damage to get about 10% more survivability over the same class dps, in my case bounty hunter. Bioware seems to care less if anyone plays a tank, look no further than these very boards to see the host of tank/pvp threads, and how there are no true tanks left in pvp. because the damage/survivability tradeoffs are so wacked.
I Find Your Lack Of Win Disturbing...May The Fail Be With You...

Merras's Avatar


Merras
02.18.2013 , 10:01 AM | #9
SWTOR has fundamental problems in game design. The biggest problem: all classes / abilities are planned to PvE environment. For example in PvE there are no problems with the tons of CC abilities - in fact these abilities are mandatory to a succesfull hard FP or ops. PvE requires these abilities. However these abilities are ruining PvP.

Bioware never really designed well or tested the abilities in PvP - they though: "everything working fine in PvE it will be OK in PvP". Hell, no.

Optimizing and balancing PVP requires a global overhaul - and this will not gonna happen.

Raynezazki's Avatar


Raynezazki
02.18.2013 , 11:15 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by LanceCorporalDan View Post
Did someone say PTs have lots of cc and high defensives and survivabity?
Yep.

I'm sitting her wondering wondering what abilities I missed. My pyro has a bubble shield, a stun that every class save knights/warriors get and later will get that 2 second mez...yay?