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[Discussion]Instant Cast AOE CC (Flashbang + Intimidating Roar + Bubble Stun)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
[Discussion]Instant Cast AOE CC (Flashbang + Intimidating Roar + Bubble Stun)

DkSharktooth's Avatar


DkSharktooth
02.18.2013 , 03:19 AM | #1
I would like to see a change to Instant Cast AOE CC abilities (Flashbang + Intimidating Roar + Bubble Stun).

These CC abilities are instant cast, last very long, affect multiple enemies, have a very short cooldown, and make other classes without them a joke. Other classes usually have long hard cast single target CC with the same cooldown and feel almost like a hindrance to bring for ranked pvp because they are underpowered in damage and or utility. See Mercs/Commandos for examples, their issues are not only with "escape problems", they just bring nothing to the table.

These concerns will still apply to the expansion and I would suggest cutting the duration of these AOE CC abilities in half or double their cooldown, or allow other classes to have their long CC abilities become instant casts to be competitive.

I would also like to suggest that future class balance be thought of in this manner: "I would bring this class to operations / ranked warzones because...."

What do you think?

rlamela's Avatar


rlamela
02.18.2013 , 03:28 AM | #2
pretty sure all hard stuns are instant cast. I know my sages FORCE STUN is instant cast, I Know my commandos CRYO GRENADE is instant, I know my gunslingers DIRTY KICK is instant. I can spec into an instant cast FORCE LIFT on my sage also. And on my trooper I can use Tech Override to make Concussive Round Instant also.

Jenna'syyde

DkSharktooth's Avatar


DkSharktooth
02.18.2013 , 03:30 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by rlamela View Post
pretty sure all hard stuns are instant cast. I know my sages FORCE STUN is instant cast, I Know my commandos CRYO GRENADE is instant, I know my gunslingers DIRTY KICK is instant. I can spec into an instant cast FORCE LIFT on my sage also. And on my trooper I can use Tech Override to make Concussive Round Instant also.

Jenna'syyde
For the merc/commando you should note that you need to use 2 cooldowns + 2 globals in order to CC one target as an instant cast with power surge + concussion missile (delayed abilities) compared to 1 global instant cast AOE CC these 2 classes have. Most sorcs are bubble stun now and do not have instant cast force lift.

cashogy_reborn's Avatar


cashogy_reborn
02.18.2013 , 03:36 AM | #4
its just 1 GCD for the power surge + concussion missile combo, power surge is off the GCD

but yeah, concussion missile for Mercs should be changed to an instant cast at least, and imo should be made an instant cast 30m AOE mez just like Sniper's FlashBang
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DkSharktooth's Avatar


DkSharktooth
02.18.2013 , 03:39 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy_reborn View Post
its just 1 GCD for the power surge + concussion missile combo, power surge is off the GCD

but yeah, concussion missile for Mercs should be changed to an instant cast at least, and imo should be made an instant cast 30m AOE mez just like Sniper's FlashBang
It bugs out Alot so I count it as 2 GCD. It is a very delayed combo. If you need proof I can fraps it for you.

NoTomorrow's Avatar


NoTomorrow
02.18.2013 , 05:26 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by DkSharktooth View Post
I would like to see a change to Instant Cast AOE CC abilities (Flashbang + Intimidating Roar + Bubble Stun).

These CC abilities are instant cast, last very long, affect multiple enemies, have a very short cooldown, and make other classes without them a joke. Other classes usually have long hard cast single target CC with the same cooldown and feel almost like a hindrance to bring for ranked pvp because they are underpowered in damage and or utility. See Mercs/Commandos for examples, their issues are not only with "escape problems", they just bring nothing to the table.

These concerns will still apply to the expansion and I would suggest cutting the duration of these AOE CC abilities in half or double their cooldown, or allow other classes to have their long CC abilities become instant casts to be competitive.

I would also like to suggest that future class balance be thought of in this manner: "I would bring this class to operations / ranked warzones because...."

What do you think?
Only if asassins lose something as well. I dont think it is fair for warriors and agent to get their aoe mezz nerfed when we have such a CC spitting machine like assassin. A good start would be changing low slash CD to 45s and tanking tree losing the talent that allows spike to be used out of stealth.
Make these nerfs to sins and we can discuss our flashbang nerf.
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Scatter Bombs are meant to be a fun bit of extra damage that occurs when you roll into or away from the action. That said, we’re okay with you trapping an unsuspecting enemy for a “wall bang” every now and then.

Gwence's Avatar


Gwence
02.18.2013 , 05:40 AM | #7
u want your 60 sec pve cc to insta cast?

lol

MusicRider's Avatar


MusicRider
02.18.2013 , 10:33 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by DkSharktooth View Post
I would also like to suggest that future class balance be thought of in this manner: "I would bring this class to operations / ranked warzones because...."
I think this is a good point here. Unfortunately it will fall short cause mobile burst is the key criterion for the majority of the dps classes, as a result piles of smash and pyro. Sages/Sorcs cc abilities has become a second criterion but it only justifies 1 healer sage and none else, plus bubble stun is not really fun. Stealth/survivability requires 1 shadow, and good tanking requires 1 guardian. Survivability and healing on the move brings an operative healer also. Here is your squad. Considering that increased cc has been met with severe criticism and "ban" in some servers what is left is mobile burst for dps and survivability/mobile healing with 1 shadow for guarding and 1 guardian tank for protection.

cycao's Avatar


cycao
02.18.2013 , 10:39 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by NoTomorrow View Post
Only if asassins lose something as well. I dont think it is fair for warriors and agent to get their aoe mezz nerfed when we have such a CC spitting machine like assassin. A good start would be changing low slash CD to 45s and tanking tree losing the talent that allows spike to be used out of stealth.
Make these nerfs to sins and we can discuss our flashbang nerf.
Why change low slash? It is a weapon based CC and is subject to defensive abilities and is only a 4 second mez and is fairly high up in the deception tree.

ktkenshinx's Avatar


ktkenshinx
02.18.2013 , 10:54 AM | #10
First of all, Bubble Stun really should not be in the same category as Roar/Flashbang. It only lasts 3 seconds, it's a hard stun (not a mezz), and it is on a class that is extremely squishy and vulnerable without its protection. With a 3 second stun duration, bubble might allow enemy Sorcs to reposition and escape, but it doesn't help hold or take objectives unless you have a stack of bubbled people chain bubbling on a node, and even that assumes that your attackers are stupid enough to run into the bubblers. More importantly, once Hutt Cartel comes out, Barrier is almost assuredly getting reworked to only affect the caster. That fix alone would preserve the usefulness of bubble for survivability while keeping it in check for team play.

Roar and Flashbang are quite different. As 6 and 8 second mezz abilities respectively, they generally have a different purpose than bubble. They either enable their caster to escape/heal up, enable a team to take an objective, or allow their caster to finish a fight while keeping reinforcements at bay (they have other uses too, but those are the big ones).

Flashbang is absolutely needed for Operatives. Unless they wanted to improve our survivability elsewhere (which might be coming soon!), we need this ability to escape a lot of bad situations. It also gives Ops a CC edge over Sins, which is one of the few areas where we have them beaten. A small CD increase could be called for (75 seconds, or 90 seconds with a talent to reduce it), but the class really needs this ability to survive and make a big impact.

I am not sure why Roar is necessary on Warriors given their survivability, mobility (for Mars), and escapes (for Juggs). Perhaps a Mar/Jugg player could talk on this, but as an outsider, the ability just seems a bit excessive for a class that already has awesome damage AND excellent survivability. In my opinion, the Roar duration could definitely be reduced to 4 seconds. You don't even have to aim Roar, unlike Flashbang, and its radius of effect is roughly the same. Generally, the ability just seems unnecessary.

Merc Conc Missile is terrible and absolutely needs a buff. A fix might look like this: An instacast missile that affected up to 2 enemies at 30m range, all on a 60s or 90s timer. This would give Mercs an escape mechanism and additional ranged utility.

The danger in all of this is balancing class CC with the overload of CC already in the game. That is why the solution is probably not to buff other CC or give CC abilities to other classes. It's probably to tone down the CC already in the game (with the exception of the Merc missile which is currently awful).
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